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Successful strategies for reference grids/planes in 3D

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VW doesn't really provide us with a built-in reference grid system that's useful when working in 3D.

 

I'm interested to hear of any strategies people use to create a reference grid system.

 

Firstly a grid that is useful whilst drawing and editing in 3D. Something like a series of vertical planes that I could use as guides when placing or moving an object - when I want something to be offset from grid line A by x mm and so on. Possibly horizontal planes as well. Some might say this is covered by layer or storey levels, but at the moment, say I want to create an extrude that sits 1m above 2nd floor FFL: the way I do it now tends to rely on finding a floor surface and setting the working plane to it, which doesn't seem ideal.

 

Secondly, and ideally, this grid would work in such a way that it could be turned on and off in viewports to automatically show in the right locations. This may be too much to ask though.

 

Anyway. I'm interested to hear how others deal with this. Or, when drawing in 3d, do you only ever place objects relative to other objects?

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The VW Grid seem to come from

a) 2D only (Side Views ?)

b) use of Paper (Grid size or extension)

It hasn't grown up for 3D usage at all so far

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^ what @digitalcarbon shows in that thread is kind of what I'm thinking of.

 

Rather than the basic grid that is discussed in the first few posts.

 

I'm talking about the kind of grid you set up for architectural drawings where you place the grid lines where they are useful, rather than as a regular spacing. It's also common to want to have some of the grid lines at different angles, for example if the building has a secondary wing which is at an angle to the main building.

 

My questions about @digitalcarbon's grid lines there would be what do they look like in a 3d opengl view (are they planes or lines?) and also do they remain visible within container objects. I can't think of how I could set something up so that it would still remain accessible whilst editing within, say, grouped objects.

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48 minutes ago, digitalcarbon said:

3d grid & VPs

 

Grid 3d.vwx

 

 

Hi - thanks - would be interested to look at that however I'm not able to open it in 2018...is that a 2019 file?

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hmmm...seems like this would not exist with a browser based cad system...😆

 

Edited by digitalcarbon
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47 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Hi - thanks - would be interested to look at that however I'm not able to open it in 2018...is that a 2019 file?

Attached in 2018 format.
 

 

3 minutes ago, digitalcarbon said:

hmmm...seems like this would not exist with a browser based cad system...😆

 

We have heard you.

Grid 3d v2018.vwx

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2 hours ago, digitalcarbon said:

3d grid & VPs

 

Grid 3d.vwx

 

 

Thanks to Jim for converting so I could open.

 

Ok, so I can see you have your grid 'planes' set up as rectangles, no fill, and linetype is your special labelled linetypes.

 

(When I look at your sheet layer 'BOM 413 (Elevation)' though, the grid lines don't show up in any of the viewports for me...not sure why?)

 

- I can see that you can set up each of those rectangles such that it is outside of the bounds of any of the model geometry. Then if you take an elevation, top or bottom view, one of the sides of the rectangle will be in the foreground and will show on top of the model when in a viewport.

 

- How does that work in a sectional viewport though? Because you will see the 'far' side of that rectangle but it will beyond and obscured by any model geometry that's in front of it.

 

- Presumably you've not found any way for your grid lines to remain accessible to snap to or measure from whilst editing inside a container object such as a group?

 

- In practice how do you make use of the grid lines? For example, say you wanted to draw, from scratch, a cube that in plan was centred on 'Grid-07' and with its bottom surface 20ft above 'Grid-100.00ft'? Would you, for example, start by aligning the working plane with one of those grid rectangles? Or do you use multi pane and make use of side/top views along with looking at things in a 3d view?

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We've been exploring a different angle using data tags, and record formats.  The problem is that the Data Tag doesn't always find the cut rectangles at least in the viewports, so they can be labeled in the sheet layers. 

 

I really think we need a robust 3d grid tool that doesn't rely on hacks and homebrews. 

 

 

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Hi Hans!  That's what we wound up doing in our model.  I was exploring this a few months ago! 

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Thanks @cberg and @Hans-Olav

 

Looks like you have a similar set up to digitalcarbon above, with the grid planes being simple rectangles with no fill.

 

Before figuring out how the data tag thing works...

 

I'm trying to work out how to get the grid lines to show as dotted in my section viewports. It seems to draw the 'cut' through the rectangle (even though it has no fill) in the linetype set in the gridline's attributes - which is fine; however it is also I think drawing the far edge of it, in the solid linetype I have set for 'objects beyond section plane', which makes the line appear solid. How are you getting around this?

 

 

***edit - have solved this I think by converting the rectangle to a polygon and then 'hide edges' for the two vertical edges. Now it seems to work fine in section viewport.

 

83728852_ScreenShot2019-01-16at15_41_30.thumb.jpg.ccf64bf1ae470285ce32949289a5e90c.jpg

Edited by line-weight
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This is FANTASTIC! It works!

I'm calling this the gridtangle tool!

 

9 hours ago, Hans-Olav said:

It can be enhanced by classing the horizontal and vertical gridlines 

one question, what extra "enhancements" are you getting from classing the horizontal and vertical gridlines? Is this so you can prevent a horizontal line from appearing in the section cut if you crop above or below the extent of the gridtangle?

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what I really love about this (in addition to providing gridlines for sections and elevations) is that it solves the problem of noting gridlines in enlarged drawings. Currently, we create 4 extra viewports (surrounding the main enlarged plan viewport) as a way to pull the grid tags in close to the cropped drawing area. This can really save some time! 

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9 hours ago, Hans-Olav said:

Hi @cberg 

I just tried what you described in the post above, and it work quite well at least in this simple file.

It can be enhanced by classing the horizontal and vertical gridlines 

  

Skjermbilde 2019-01-16 kl. 14.25.39.png

grid.vwx

Any chance you could back-save a copy of this file to a VW2018 version for those of us who've not moved to 2019?

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22 minutes ago, mgries said:

This is FANTASTIC! It works!

I'm calling this the gridtangle tool!

 

one question, what extra "enhancements" are you getting from classing the horizontal and vertical gridlines? Is this so you can prevent a horizontal line from appearing in the section cut if you crop above or below the extent of the gridtangle?

Might also be useful where you have an elevation/section view that's not parallel with your vertical gridtangle planes, so switching them on doesn't make sense but would still be useful to see the horizontal ones.

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@line-weight The trix I used is the new tag tool and a simple record format assigned to the grid extrudes. The tag isn't available in 2018, so I guess its a good reason for upgrading (-; 

Anyhow I have attached the file in 2018 version 

grid v2018.vwx

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8 hours ago, mgries said:

one question, what extra "enhancements" are you getting from classing the horizontal and vertical gridlines? Is this so you can prevent a horizontal line from appearing in the section cut if you crop above or below the extent of the gridtangle?

@mgries 

It will just give more control,  if some lines are getting in the way its easy to hide them

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1 hour ago, Hans-Olav said:

@line-weight The trix I used is the new tag tool and a simple record format assigned to the grid extrudes. The tag isn't available in 2018, so I guess its a good reason for upgrading (-; 

Anyhow I have attached the file in 2018 version 

grid v2018.vwx

Thanks.

 

Not quite enough to persuade me to go for 2019. Automatic labelling would be nice but it sounds from your comments like it's not 100% reliable. I'll look forward to upgrading to 2020, the version of VW where everything is going to work flawlessly.

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I see a lot of possibilities in the tag tool.

  • Automatic hight and type of ceilings 
  • Automatic top and bottom opening heights for windows in floorplans 
  • fire and dB values on floorplans from wallstyles 
  • in short making the IFC values visible on floor plans when needed 
  • Gridlines in sections and elevations

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Folks, I'm playing around with an alternate idea for at least one set of grids - the heights. 

 

Make a floor slab object the size of your grid box. New style as you see fit, no fill & no texture. I put mine by a grid class without those things. Make the floor slab object by datum and of zero thickness.

 

In side view (elevation) add an elevation benchmark tagged to this slab (which appears to be a rectangle). If you change the Story height, the slab (grid) and benchmark move accordingly.

 

Now if only I could figure out why the Benchmark Elevation bubbles arent displaying right on the Sheet... Two steps forward... 

FloorSlab.png

SlabStyle.png

SheetIssue.png

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I like how this method ensures that the benchmark gridline updates with any changes to story/level data. That's pretty smart. Regarding issue with graphics, it's already very easy to apply the benchmark elevation tool directly to the annotative layer of the Section viewport. Why not just have the grid datum slab in the model w/o the anno, and apply the anno in the viewports as necessary? This carries with it the same benefit as with the data tag trick. You get to put the tag wherever it's needed. If you put it in the model, it's stuck in one location, and is only really useful for the full view drawings. You'll have to re-annotate your benchmarks for any enlarged or partial (cropped) drawings.

 

matt

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Folks,

 

Feel like I'm close here but still too new to VW to push it home...

 

Slab of zero thickness works fine for a grid datum. That's included.

 

Story marker symbol, needs some help (as do I!): Made a symbol that works fine in design layers. In hidden-line elevations not so much, the filled green areas of the elevation symbol dont fill as expected. I'm sure I"m doing something wrong with classes but for the love of computers I cant make any solid color appear in hidden line (for elevations).

 

Alternately - using the symbol with data-tag tool works brilliantly in a viewport as it throws them all in a nice neat column. However, its somehow tagging the same symbol that was placed in design layer, not tagging the floor slabs!? Need your wisdom here too.

 

cheers,

-j

StoryMarkers.vwx

Screen Shot 2019-01-27 at 9.39.25 AM.png

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