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MHBrown

Wireframe and OpenGL missing parts

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When using OpenGL or Wireframe my model will disappear or parts will disappear. Doing a re-render does not help. Having the model disappear makes is very difficult to work on it. Is this a new "feature" that allows me to go play golf instead of working ("sorry, boss, the model does not exist. See for yourself")? I'm thinking that the random missing parts is some sort of criticism by the application.

 

Since my MiniCAD days in the mid-1990s I've never seen such a mess as VW2018. We used to call a dead boat engine an "anchor." VW is not the equivalent of that for me. The only thing that works are the Renderworks settings. Even fast renderworks, however, means minimum ten seconds between mouse clicks. S.....L.....O...........W. I'm using VW2018 SP4. Any ideas as to what is happening? I'm on a iMac. See image below. 

Any help is welcome; this is very frustrating.

MHBrown

Screen Shot 2018-12-18 at 5.27.31 PM.png

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Longshot, but  . . . Did you test the Navigation Display settings in vwx prefs?  This controls how things are fed to the graphics card.

 

I think it defaults to most intensive (Best Performance).

 

Try mid (Best Compatibility & Performance) and do a few actions that were slow in other settings.

 

Or Lowest (Best Compatibility)

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Just wondering if this work around works on a mac too. We've noticed behaviour like this on PC and have figured out a little trick.

When things don't draw, or end up ghosted (I.e. it highlights in it's new position but is drawn at it's old position) there's not a lot you can do.

Changing render modes etc. won't fix it and a save and re-load sometimes won't work either.

 

Activate your B&W view button at the top, and then when in this case toggle on and off... We've noticed that it flushes the problem out and forces a full redraw, fixing that display error.

Up until now we've only tried in on PC so I'm interested if it works on mac too.

 

image.thumb.png.08ee81d654a355f6f3308d3538a9a6c6.png

 

Switch on the button first for easy access, and then just click on/off when needed... Let me know if this helps

 

 

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Thanks for the advice, but none of that worked. It's sad to hear it is a chronic, across platforms problem. It better get fixed. Do other CAD programs have this type of problem? I am very much dissatisfied with the present state of VW. I won't be upgrading to VW2019 until all of these problems are fixed...and I'm not talking about work-arounds. OpenGL not working, the model missing from the screen. What could be more basic than being able to see one's work? And VW, do NOT give me that nonsense that my problems are solved if I start and start a project in one version of VW. It was YOU who decided to accelerate the upgrades to yearly without committing the resources to pull it off and YOU need to fix it. It may be a video card problem, an OS problem, or a VW app problem, but YOU need to identify it.

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I would say you have a corrupt object in your file. Have you contacted tech support? Your graphics card is well beyond the horsepower needed for most models.

 

Kevin

 

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It is not a corrupt object, unless you are defining as "corrupt" any object in a drawing created in a VW2017 file and opened in VW2018. All such objects within seem to have a significant chance of being misinterpreted by the newer version software. But I would not call that a "corrupt object" since it is somewhat intentional. That is what appears to be happening, anyway. It is not behaving as if a single corrupt object were living inside the file. Anecdotal evidence, to be sure, but gathered over 25 years of using the software.

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@MHBrown Given what you are experiencing, I would definitely recommend first updating to VW2018 SP6, then if the problem persists, do get in touch with the Vectorworks technical support team in your country.

 

Based on your description it sounds to me like you either have a corrupt object in your file or you have an object that is very far from origin. Having used the software as long as you have, I'm sure you know that such objects in a file can cause all kinds of trouble for an otherwise healthy file.

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rDesign, thanks for letting me know about the service packs. I'm not going to upgrade due to the uncertainty that I'd be just be replacing unknown problems with ones I already know about. There is no reason to believe that SP5 and SP6 will result in a more stable version of VW. Just a different one. Thanks, Neil, for the suggestion about objects very far away (I've had objects whose distance were so far out it was given in scientific notation!) I checked that already and that is not the case...but it was a good thought. Neither to I have an extremely large object. I think that after using the same file for over a year--with lots of rendering and textures--that it broke down. At this juncture, VW is simply not robust enough to do even simple projects if the file is used too often. I'm not building a skyscraper; my projects are very modest in size...although the latest file is over 500mb. I think it is the repetition that eventually causes things to go crazy. Even after I put my model into a blank VW2018 file the images come and go.

 

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13 minutes ago, MHBrown said:

There is no reason to believe that SP5 and SP6 will result in a more stable version of VW. Just a different one.

Actually, Service Packs are created to implement, among other things, bug fixes... so SP5 and SP6 would be more stable than SP4. I do hope that you update your VW2018 to SP6.

 

15 minutes ago, MHBrown said:

At this juncture, VW is simply not robust enough to do even simple projects if the file is used too often. I'm not building a skyscraper; my projects are very modest in size...although the latest file is over 500mb. I think it is the repetition that eventually causes things to go crazy. Even after I put my model into a blank VW2018 file the images come and go.

A modest sized project resulting in a 500mb file? And the same model experiencing issues when it is brought into a brand new file? Those are red flags I would say. Without seeing the file it's impossible to know why they are occurring for sure, but it sounds to me like your file may be overtaxed with resources or perhaps has a number of high-polygon-count objects. Those are purely guesses though. (For context, I too have done modest-sized commercial and residential projects in the last several versions of Vectorworks, opening the files very often, and I have not run into the issues you are describing, nor have I managed to get my file to a similar size, even with many object models and textures.) 

 

The Community Forum is great for many things, but since you are having the difficulties you describe, I encourage you to contact your Vectorworks technical support reps as soon as you can.

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Thanks, Neil, I might have too many legacy symbols that I'm not using. Other than that, there is not really anything unusual. I have quite a few texture maps, perhaps 75 or so. But it's a interactive science area with lots of graphics and colors. I'm always careful with my polygon sizes and only use real geometry when I need to. VW's transparency maps, however, don't always render transparent. So if I have something punched out of metal, I have to actually punch it out. I'll try to clear out unused symbols and texture maps and see if that helps. I've generally used Strata3D for my color rendering and this is the first time I've tried to keep a project in one application. It is not really possible to model with precision in Strata and VW's rendering has gotten better so I've giving it a try. 

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rDesign, thanks for letting me know about the service packs. I'm not going to upgrade due to the uncertainty that I'd be just be replacing unknown problems with ones I already know about. There is no reason to believe that SP5 and SP6 will result in a more stable version of VW. Just a different one. Thanks, Neil, for the suggestion about objects very far away (I've had objects whose distance were so far out it was given in scientific notation!) I checked that already and that is not the case...but it was a good thought.  I think that after using the same file for over a year--with lots of rendering and textures--that it broke down.

 

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OK. I'm so sick of the "black rectangle" rendering bug that I'm going to try to update VW with SP5 and SP6. Crossing fingers...

Edited by MHBrown

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Did all the upgrades. Still getting the black rectangle of death on rendering. Not Happy with this application. I rate it a zero.

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As mentioned previously @MHBrown, it would really be best for you to contact technical support to allow them to assist you.

 

In the meantime, since technical support is now closed for the weekend, you can always try posting the file here if you would like someone here to take a look. Doing so would help narrow down if the issue is related to your specific file, your particular computer and its hardware/software (since every computer is different), or Vectorworks in general.

 

Whatever the case, do know that help is available if you would like it. 

 

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500 MB sounds awfully large for a modest sized design.  My rather large projects are around 250mb with photo realistic renderings.  It sounds to me like you may have a high poly object inserted in the file or something is calculating away from origin.  Something simple like a line or node many miles from origin would throw the whole render calculation out of whack.

 

Have you imported anything from a AutoCAD File, revit objects or Sketchup objects?

 

Can you post the file on here for others to look at and give input? Have you tried tech support? Those folks can find the most nagging of issues in a file.

 

Rob

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My understanding is that the "black rectangle" problem goes back aways and is not unique to my file. Also, it does the same thing with much smaller files with different items. In short, it's not my file. It has something to do with the Renderworks engine (OpenGL has no problem rendering a scene.) Thank you for your advice. I think I just need to wait for a fix from VW.

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1 minute ago, MHBrown said:

My understanding is that the "black rectangle" problem goes back aways and is not unique to my file. Also, it does the same thing with much smaller files with different items. In short, it's not my file. It has something to do with the Renderworks engine (OpenGL has no problem rendering a scene.) Thank you for your advice. I think I just need to wait for a fix from VW.

After this much time. there is a possibility that the issue may be related to something to do with your computer, or with settings within your file(s). It's difficult to say without knowing more about either.

 

Instead of simply waiting for a fix, I do recommend that you contact Vectorworks technical support so they can assist you. That is what they are there for.

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5 minutes ago, MHBrown said:

Thank you for your advice. I think I just need to wait for a fix from VW.


If you have yet to contact support directly and haven't been explicitly told a fix is coming by an employee here, then there is no reason to expect a fix is forthcoming for any issue.

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I would follow Neil and Jim's recommendation to contact tech support directly.  I have been using 2019 SP 2 on a 5 year old MacBook Pro without any issue with any of my renderings in any of my files.Tech support has the means to take your file apart and examine your computer specifications to help determine what the issue is.

 

Rob

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OK, thanks. I'll try to get to it later on this month. Since it is intermittent it will be difficult to isolate, I think. Was this not a problem that many people had? I seem to remember that it was, starting around 2016 or so. If so, was it fixed?

 

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That's the main reason support should look at nearly every case. While we did in fact solve the actual bug that you're mentioning from another thread, when we fix a bug we fix the cause of the bug. If you have an issue that has identical or nearly identical symptoms and assume the cause is the same as others (assume vs confirming with a support tech i mean) then no fix will come of it. For instance, I am fairly certain the solid black/missing geometry render bug is resolved as i have not seen it since 2019 SP2 at all, even when doing heavy rendering daily for weeks. 

 

There is yet ANOTHER similar bug, except where renders can turn white as opposed to black that a lot of users assumed was the same bug, but it is linked to the Default Compression setting in Vectorworks preferences being set to PNG instead of JPEG, copmpletely unrelated cause but very similar symptom. 

 

What i suspect is happening in your case is that you have symptoms of a reported and confirmed issue, but that something else altogether is causing it, since it cant be replicated as it could for the other issues at the time.

(If contacting support is a time constraint issue, you can absolutely just email them a link to this thread with a brief explanation, then the tech can review it and catch up so you don't have to repeat everything all over again.)

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