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Phileas

Odd Wall Component joins when fitting walls to roof

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Hi there,

I've been working on the roof of a house I'm designing, and when it comes to fitting the walls to the roof I created using the "Fit Walls to 3D Objects/Roof" command, the wall components join in a kinda weird way.

 

1909734396_Capturedecran2018-12-13a16_15_43.thumb.png.c95509e30054e66b1e8ca124245e7d9a.png

 

I was wondering if there was  way to fix this.

I'm using VW 2018 on  a mac.

Thanks!

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@phileas As great as the fit walls to object tool is, rightly so it is very very sensitive so it does actually do what it says on the tin and will fit to the object above. If there are imperfections in the roof object it will work round them which is what I think is happening to your walls. So for example (albeit not a good one) if I accidentally place a gutter in the wrong position (see image) the wall will work around it. At least that is maybe what is happening for you? Hope this helps. 

image.png

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One thing to note, when walls are 'fitted' to objects, their top surface always remains horizontal, i.e. if a wall is running perpendicular to a slope, the top of the wall won't be sloped to match the object. The slope of the wall will follow the object slope but the top surface of the wall will remain horizontal.  So you usually end up with slightly odd corner junctions which is what it looks like you are experiencing.

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@David S First of All thank you for your reply!

You're right, this was the problem the first time I experienced this problem. However, in this post, I've already fixed that and the result is still the same: the wall slopes with the gable as wanted, but the top of the (the top surface of the components) remains horizontal, as predicted by @BG.

 

@BG Thank you for taking the time to reply! Does that mean there is no way to actually fix this issue? That kinda sucks. I have been working with ArchiCAD until I recently switched to a new office that works with VW, kinda miss my old programm...

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Hi. We've actually found that it doesn't affect our work. In reality the top plates of walls are usually flat anyway so it kind of mirrors how walls are built.  But you're right, there is no way to get the tops of walls angled to match whatever you are fitting them to unless the wall runs parallel with the object slope.

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@BG yeah it doesn't affect our work you're right, first of all because these parts in invisible, hidden under the roof, and don't show in a section view either.

I just wanted to know if there was a way to be as accurate as possible.

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On 12/18/2018 at 7:26 AM, Phileas said:

I have been working with ArchiCAD until I recently switched to a new office that works with VW, kinda miss my old programm...

 

Haha - Thats not what we want to hear!!

 

2 hours ago, Phileas said:

I just wanted to know if there was a way to be as accurate as possible.

 

There is a way to make this work towards a more accurate model. As already discussed, the best way to create 3D is to build your model as you would build the real thing. If VW will allow.

 

A criticism I usually have is that the boffins don't follow through with the tools to let you do the job. On this issue, I believe they've done a really good job.

 

You've raised an issue with joining walls and your image shows (I believe) walls with the default mitre join.

 

(As already discussed) The walls and their components struggle to resolve the two planes coinciding at their junction. One wall wants to remain level and the other needs to achieve a slope.

 

143273891_ScreenShot2018-12-19at09_56_26.thumb.png.c5391830e15512b45f6b97b699ea8d69.png                                                      415340024_ScreenShot2018-12-19at09_57_09.thumb.png.279deb19aa81b2376d47d6727c2494c7.png

 

 

So - using the Wall end cap tool...

 

157134390_ScreenShot2018-12-19at10_08_16.thumb.png.c4f7b69c8e71c95c4be375bb6bf23494.png

 

Modify the 'level' wall as shown... (also try the sloping wall to see the alternative options and results - there's never 'only one way' to do these things)

 

376232291_ScreenShot2018-12-19at09_53_39.thumb.png.ce1c9458a2f3101e98a39666461e8958.png

 

 

 

 

1362904127_ScreenShot2018-12-19at09_51_50.thumb.png.400869d1e969620fe8b7ae71c7a594dc.png                                                                1237165937_ScreenShot2018-12-19at09_51_31.thumb.png.6d585c7d519d91a0aa79f9d16a0e738a.png

 

 

3 hours ago, Phileas said:

these parts in invisible, hidden under the roof

 

If you'd rather not rely on the roof shrouding the inconsistencies, remaining height differences can be tweaked by setting components at differing top offsets so that timber wall plates etc. can be placed accurately.

 

1497764763_ScreenShot2018-12-19at10_31_50.thumb.png.3ba9383b3fa5cbf51c53913da3223589.png

 

Additionally, small infills (say just the brick skin) can be provided to sit on top of the main walls to raise to the level required to fit the joisting/framing material for the roof. Which, once again, is just as it would be built.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Phileas said:

Faith in VW restored

 

Biplab will be pleased.

 

Now if only he could find the time to restore (gratis) the features I thought I bought in 2017 and don't actually live up to the 'sales pitch', together with those that did work and were broken by the boffins in 2018. 

 

Oh well....at least I didn't fall for 2019. 

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@Gadzooks well 2019 has at least one feature I'd like to have, and that's the possibility to edit the upper and lower end of stairs to fi the slab they're linked to.

 

I don't know if there's more to it or not actually... But as for now I'm pretty happy with my 2018.

 

Thing is, in my opinion, programs like VW or Archicad are still relatively new. Probably we'll all get way better programs in 5 or 10 years time, and until then we have to be the ones reporting the problems we have to the developpers in order for them to fix them, so we get better programs as soon as possible.

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23 hours ago, Gadzooks said:

 

 

Haha - Thats not what we want to hear!!

 

 

There is a way to make this work towards a more accurate model. As already discussed, the best way to create 3D is to build your model as you would build the real thing. If VW will allow.

 

A criticism I usually have is that the boffins don't follow through with the tools to let you do the job. On this issue, I believe they've done a really good job.

 

You've raised an issue with joining walls and your image shows (I believe) walls with the default mitre join.

 

(As already discussed) The walls and their components struggle to resolve the two planes coinciding at their junction. One wall wants to remain level and the other needs to achieve a slope.

 

143273891_ScreenShot2018-12-19at09_56_26.thumb.png.c5391830e15512b45f6b97b699ea8d69.png                                                      415340024_ScreenShot2018-12-19at09_57_09.thumb.png.279deb19aa81b2376d47d6727c2494c7.png

 

 

So - using the Wall end cap tool...

 

157134390_ScreenShot2018-12-19at10_08_16.thumb.png.c4f7b69c8e71c95c4be375bb6bf23494.png

 

Modify the 'level' wall as shown... (also try the sloping wall to see the alternative options and results - there's never 'only one way' to do these things)

 

376232291_ScreenShot2018-12-19at09_53_39.thumb.png.ce1c9458a2f3101e98a39666461e8958.png

 

 

 

 

1362904127_ScreenShot2018-12-19at09_51_50.thumb.png.400869d1e969620fe8b7ae71c7a594dc.png                                                                1237165937_ScreenShot2018-12-19at09_51_31.thumb.png.6d585c7d519d91a0aa79f9d16a0e738a.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you talk us through the exact procedure there? (I can't get it to work)

 

Do you create a cap on the level wall before joining it to the sloping wall? I can get as far as this:

 

907777922_ScreenShot2018-12-20at10_50_19.thumb.jpg.1f058148d4d5f78bc2aba9f69aa81008.jpg

 

but then don't see how to join the walls without it reverting to the messy join. If I try and use the wall cap tool to connect, say the outer layer on the level wall to the outer layer on the sloping wall, I just get an error message.

 

Also... I suspect this method might not work if the walls join at something other than a right angle  - is that right

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@line-weight totally right, you can't have this join without having your walls joined at a right angle...  You can't get it better than what you have now (or if someone has a way to do it PLEASE share).

 

I don't know where you get the error message though, it worked perfectly for me... I'm afraid I can't help you sorry😞

 

Hopefully @Gadzooks can save you

Edited by Phileas

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I did manage to get this (for non-90 degree angle), by adding an extra vertex to the sloped wall. The join is still a bit odd though and it's not necessarily the shape you'd want to see on the outer wall face.

 

82766313_ScreenShot2018-12-20at14_59_15.thumb.jpg.44fa6e4c1ebda3d4031be05dbe23c08b.jpg

Edited by line-weight

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@line-weight  I don't think that it is possible to get this situation any more accurate than you have now unfortunately... still looks acceptable to me to be honest I can live with that.

 

An upgrade of the wall joining tool goes on my wishing list for a future version of VW tho

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Apologies guys - was having to finish something urgent.

 

Yes, I think the 'fix' and, lets face it, a wall tool weakness - but perhaps more reasonably described as a tool limitation - is that it 'likes' 90º junctions when contending with (pitched) roofs over. Other angles do highlight the problems when seen in 3D, but you could say this is a 'feature' and brings your attention to an area that will need some consideration/further detail during the build.

 

In terms of the software, I think that this is reasonable, as pitches covering odd junctions is rarer and the boffins (even if they wanted to) surely can't cover every eventuallity (no harm in wish-listing it @Phileas !!). The 2D component join works well for the occasional 'design detour' and the detail of the junction can be better provided in (say) a 1:10 call-out using additional detailed 3D work.

 

23 hours ago, line-weight said:

Can you talk us through the exact procedure there? (I can't get it to work)

 

Do you still need this? Happy to provide if you're not having luck with it.

 

But then you seem to have moved to a more complex (100º-120º?) junction. 

 

20 hours ago, line-weight said:

I did manage to get this (for non-90 degree angle)

 

Looks like a totally workable solution. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Gadzooks said:

 

Do you still need this? Happy to provide if you're not having luck with it.

 

But then you seem to have moved to a more complex (100º-120º?) junction. 

 

 

Looks like a totally workable solution. 

 

 

Not essential for it to be answered, more just out of interest. I wasn't quite sure what you were doing with the 'wall cap' (or other) tool to make the components turn around the corner like that.

Edited by line-weight

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