Saving "Line weight by color" settings when importing/exporting dwgs

[dgruber]

I'm constantly importing and exporting dwgs, and I need to find a way to either save the settings for assigning line weight by color, or to change the default settings so that they are numbers other than .15mm.

Does anybody know of a way to do this?

Thanks,

Dan

System: Vectorworks 11 on Mac OS 10.3.7

[eric.rktek]

I second this wish. I am constantly having to go in and reselect line weight/color combos when exporting to aCad. Is there a default file that can be tweaked?

[mike m oz]

The ability to save 'map' or conversion sets would be beneficial.

I have a local user who constantly berates me over this issue. He exchanges information with AutoCAD people who must either not have modern versions of AC or pigheadedly continue to work using the old protocol. As a consequence the line colour to line weight issue is a real problem for him. I have repeatedly explained to him how to overcome the issue by either obtaining their convention and using this as the basis, or urging them to get themselves into the 21st Century. His counter arguement is that he shouldn't have to do this - VectorWork should be clever enough to do it for him,

He is a design architect and is not at all interested in nitty gritty stuff. My experience is that the more design oriented people are the less likely they are to be interested in playing with settings and features - they just want it to do it. Conversely the more technically minded people like playing around with the program.

The other beef this particular bloke has is as to why he just can't use VectorWorks to Open AutoCad drawings, and use Save As to save his VW drawings as AC drawings. His arguement is that other programs like ArchiCad do it this way so why doesn't VW.

PS And yes I have suggested to him that he switch to AutoCAD (subtly and unsubtly!)

[ 02-01-2005, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: mike m oz ]

[Marietta]

When I import autocad drawings using classes for layers, I import changing all colours to black and don't worry about line weights (don't select that option).I save a view with all the classes visible, in case something goes missing) I change the line attributes, colour, visibility, etc. given to those classes which might need to be changed (in an ideal setting, they should use the attributes given to that class when it was a layer in Autocad). Then I save a view with that setting. You may need to select the objects and make sure that they are using the class attributes. Now, if you recieve an updated file from Autocad, you should be able to copy that file to a new VW layer and all the classes should come in the same way (you'll need to edit the view to make the new layer visible and the old one invisible). Hopefully, they haven't put items on the wrong layers or classes, then you'll have to find them (this is where saving the views comes in handy). This is a bit tedious, but if you are constantly getting updated files to incorporate, it is worth it. In Autocad, everyone has to adjust their drawings also, and since it seems that everyone uses a different standard for assigning line weights to colours, it seems ludicrous to work this way still. Most of my clients have no problems when I send them autocad files with the line weights incorporated in the lines themselves. At least here in Canada, the Government still wants the old standard though. When exporting using line weights, you'll need the other guy's standard. Is there a way to read the Autocad's ctb(?) file and is there a script you can use so that you only have to input the line weight assignments once?

The only issue I have with assigning line weights to colours when exporting is how to deal with screened lines. I use an odd line weight, so that I can export this to a grey colour used for screening.

[oldguy]

AutoCAD's ctb file is a binary file, but....

There is a utility that will read the ctb and save as a CSV file that can be used in Excel or Cut 'n paseted into a Script I suppose. The AutoCAD user would need to download and run. Here is a link to Tableprint. The Zip file contains a GUI front end, but mode important two different version in one convient package of AutoDESK's Tableprint program (one for 2000 based Dwg, the other for 2004.... er... something)

http://members.lycos.nl/goplot/

The newer version tableprint8 is also vailable from:

http://www3.autodesk.com/adsk/files/2372184_Plot_Tool.zip

[dgruber]

Marietta's solution works okay on the front end, basically creating a template to import into that assigns line thickness based on class attributes. I haven't tried it yet on a full blown drawing, but there's the idea.

Exporting is still a problem. When the AutoCAD user opens a drawing with true line weights, they complain that they cannot edit these lines properly. If all they need to do is print it works, but ideally they will incorporate what we draw into their existing AutoCAD drawings.

What is frustrating is that after I set the line weights the first time those settings remain in successive imports until I quit (or crash) Vectorworks. If it can commit the information to short term memory, is it such a big stretch to save it for next time?

If only I could change the defaults....

[eric.rktek]

Again, my thoughts exactly on the export end. I am trying to send files to my consultants in the least disruptive way from VW to aCAD. Having a exprt settings that is remembered would make it so much easier and efficent.

[mike m oz]

If people used the standard AC protocol for colours and linewights it would be easy. Unfortunately there are dozens, and probably hundreds of permutations out there. This complicates both the importing and exporting process Thus the need to be able to save conversion settings as a set which can be recalled.

The alternative is to give the people a hard time and tell them to get their AutoCAD software and practices up to date. ie. draw using real lineweights and get rid of the archaic lineweight by colour protocol. It was ony a necessity in the days of pen plotters and how long is it since you have seen one of those in use.

We would all be better served by giving the AutoCad people a hard time as to why they can't get their act together and use real lineweights.

[Marietta]

I am hoping that Katie or Robert can answer regarding a script or something that can remember up to 10 or 15 different line weight settings. We work with at least ten different clients at a time on different projects, of course all using different standards. A few of the newer folks will use the line weights in autocad, but most don't.

Old guy, If I understand you correctly, this is something the Autocad user needs to do prior to sending the line weight info to us?

[jan15]

The conversion table from colors to lineweights isn't stored in an Autocad DWG file. It's stored in a separate CTB file, usually in a different folder. The AC user would have to send you that file, and you would have to convert it to a readable form using the software Old Guy suggested.

Even if you have the same version of Autocad, you still can't know what their colors mean unless they send you the CTB file. And many people drawing with Autocad don't even know there is such a thing as a CTB file. It's set up by their CAD administrator.

[Marietta]

Hi. We tried using the software Old Guy suggested, but it seems to work only on full autocad, not autocadLt. Is there any other program that could open these files, particularly on a Mac?

Dgruber, This file is only useful to obtain the line weight assignments the autcoad operator was using. We would still need something in Vectorworks that would save these settings that we can reuse at a later date and to use them for exporting.

[dgruber]

Often companies will have a CAD standard drawing file, which has all of the pen numbers, line widths, patterns, and screen colors that they use. This is a really handy file for setting things up, even though it kills me to have to do it repeatedly. Here's how I use it:

1. I get a hard copy of the standards sheet from the AutoCAD user as a guide for when I'm plugging in the line weights, as well as to show graphically how the lines should print.

2. I import this file before importing any other drawings from the AutoCAD user, because it has all the colors represented in it. You can only enter line weight information for colors that exist in the dwg you are trying to import. If you then try to import another drawing from the same source, you have to decifer which new colors are being used, etc. The CAD standard dwg has all the colors in it, so in successive imports you know that the line weights will be correct (unless you quit Vectorworks ever, or import dwgs from a different source).

[jan15]

Just a thought...

What if you don't convert colors to lineweights during import, and instead create a script that selects all objects of a certain color and assigns them a certain lineweight (and maybe also turns them black)?

It might be a lot of work initially (I don't know how much, since I don't use scripts; it would be pretty easy with a macro), but you could re-use that script any time you import from that correspondent.

[David Bertrand]

When using Acad, we never bothered with line weights, but relied on the old lineweight by color protocol. It was easy -- and how many lineweights do you need anyhow? We got by with less than 10 different colors.

Also, I don't remember ever running into anyone else's Acad drawings that used line weights. It just wasn't a popular feature.

I can see that this could be a problem with large drawings. After importing the drawing, I would isolate each layer (class), select all in that class and reassign them to an appropriate class. That might take a while.

jan15: Can you recommend a macro program that I could use on my PowerBook? I'm at my wit's end with those icons. Thanks.

Dave

[jan15]

Dave,

When I was on a Mac (6-8 years ago), I used one called "QuicKeys". I remember it as working well enough, but expensive (about $100, I think). Now, on Windows, I use "Macro Express", which is terrific and only cost $40 (and I discovered later that its little sister, "Keyboard Express", for $25, would have more than suited my purpose). But there's no Macintosh version of either of those.

If you're just trying to avoid icons, you don't need a macro utility. Just assign a key to each tool, in Workspace Editor. I use macros for pull-down menu commands, to avoid those slow and painful Ctrl-key combinations which are the Workspace Editor's only keyboard alternatives to commands.

[dgruber]

Assuming it is possible to translate the ctb file into something readable to Vectorworks. What could you actually do with this file? And to do it the other way around, converting a CSV to a ctb, would require actually being able to save the information into a database, right? And it still doesn't solve the problem of needing to manually map lineweights to colors when exporting.

[oldguy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marietta:

Hi. We tried using the software Old Guy suggested, but it seems to work only on full autocad, not autocadLt. Is there any other program that could open these files, particularly on a Mac?

Dgruber, This file is only useful to obtain the line weight assignments the autcoad operator was using. We would still need something in Vectorworks that would save these settings that we can reuse at a later date and to use them for exporting.

---

Mind you I only have a demo copy of VW11, and so, can not experiment to confirm.....

Several IF's

IF AutoCAD Layers import as VW classes, then, I assume (Dangerous I know) VW Classes export as AutoCAD Layers

IF all VW enties are created with colour by Class Style (Class with "Use at Creation" Check marked) these should export to AutoCAD, me-thinks, as, in effect AutoCAD Colour-by-layer.

IF, that being said, you can tell the AutoCAD user, for example, Red = 0.35mm linewidth, Green = 0.5mmm etc etc, The AutoCAD use could then create a "CTB" file "VectorWorks Consultant 1" and apply this to any and all drawings from you.

Is it worth the effort? Depends on how often you are exchanging drawings with this one firm

One other point, tableprint8 of tableprint7 is an external program and I suspect it should read the ctb file regradless of LT or not. LT is "crippled" compared with full AutoCAd as regrads LIPS programming etc - maybe a "missing" AutoCAD DLL or something could make a difference - Dunnno

JimL