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Kevin McAllister

Data Tag - Positioning Tags

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The Data Tag needs much more robust positioning features. It should be able to do all of these leader positions and more -

 

162661674_ScreenShot2018-11-18at9_38_48AM.thumb.png.1a1a79068d1a30d17da72b380867f53a.png

 

Ideally the positioning system would be the same for the Data Tag, Callouts, Detail Markers and any other similar labeling situation in VW. (I know there's already a wish for Callouts to be able to do above and below without a shoulder and centred on the text. This would be needed for the Data Tag if it were used in a grid labelling system which was also talked about in another recent forum post.)

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 

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1 hour ago, Kevin McAllister said:

It should be able to do all of these leader positions and more -

 

Another one to consider is multiple leaders. We need to be able to provide 1 Data Tag that identifies several identical objects without the need for duplicate tags.

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Hi, Kevin and Eric,

 

About the positioning:

Every option you have shown is possible. You will need a layout if this type:

prof.PNG

I've added 4 loci at the layout's bounds (the circle's min and max x and y) and the whole geometry is on the right of the origin.

Lets label the tags on your picture with hours on a watch face with the vertical being 12 and 6 (7 and 11 missing).

1 and 5 are achieved by having a positive shoulder length and "Allow Multiple Attachment Points" - disabled.

2, 3, 4, 8, 9 and 10 can be made the same way or with "Allow Multiple Attachment Points" enabled, however enabling that parameter can cause the Data Tag to pick another locus to attach the shoulder to depending on the placement.

6 and 12: you need to set the shoulder length to 0 and enable the "Allow Multiple Attachment Points" parameter. Bare in mind that having a shoulder length of 0 will make its control point and the origin one to overlap. In that case the shoulder one takes precedence and will be activated when clicking on them.

The centre one is just without a leader.

 

About the multiple leader lines:

We don't have multiple leaders and don't tag multiple objects because their data can be different. Even if at the time of tagging the extracted data is identical (some extractable data will never be the same in real-world scenarious) there is nothing stopping you from changing it for one object and not for the other. That will lead to inconsistencies at best.

 

Hope this helps.

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On 12/4/2018 at 4:04 AM, TDimov said:

 

We don't have multiple leaders and don't tag multiple objects because their data can be different

What if the additional leaders were ‘dumb’? If the designer knows the other objects they would like to be identified are the same as the primary object tagged then there should be no need for these additional leaders to pick up data... or be slightly smart and alert the user that the object the leader could snap to isn’t the same object a Athen primary object tagged.

Would be a welcome functional addition.

Edited by Aspect_Design
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7 hours ago, Aspect_Design said:

What if the additional leaders were ‘dumb’?

 

I think this is a great work around @Aspect_Design

 

@TDimov Unfortunately we need the ability to have one callout identify several identical objects. Otherwise our sheets have the potential to get completely crammed with identical callouts and can quickly become illegible. As designers, we understand the compromises you mention...inconsistencies can occur; however, we also NEED to produce clean, simple drawings and this reasoning flies in the face of that. The multiple leader line in the Callout Tool was a revelation when it was released, so I'm sure the Vectorworks team can figure this one out.

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14 minutes ago, ericjhberg said:

 

I think this is a great work around @Aspect_Design

 

@TDimov Unfortunately we need the ability to have one callout identify several identical objects. Otherwise our sheets have the potential to get completely crammed with identical callouts and can quickly become illegible. As designers, we understand the compromises you mention...inconsistencies can occur; however, we also NEED to produce clean, simple drawings and this reasoning flies in the face of that. The multiple leader line in the Callout Tool was a revelation when it was released, so I'm sure the Vectorworks team can figure this one out.

 

@ericjhberg We will look into the possibility of additional leader lines that point to different objects but don't extract their data. In the meantime I can offer you this workaround: place multiple Data Tag objects on top of each other so that they appear as a single one while their leader lines are marking different objects. You can also group them. I've tested it and their leader lines update accordingly when moving an associated object or the group itself. The only inconvenience is that you will need a few more clicks to enter and exit the group. Also, the group's outline seems to depend on the Data Tag objects' original appearance, to minimize it place the Data Tag objects and associated objects close together before making the group.

leaders.PNG

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@TDimov Thanks for the suggestion. This is actually what we used to do with callouts before multi line leaders became available and it will work in the short term.

 

Hopefully it's not a long-term solution though because as you say, more clicks and also more management in the multiple callouts. Additionally, in multiple user environments it is difficult to communicate this to others working on the project that may inadvertently make a change to one, but not all of the associated tags.

 

Thanks again.

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Data tag is mirroring the symbol. Is there a way to fix it's position?

Our graphic standard requires for it to be consistent. I would like to be able to move the tag without it changing.

1387355870_ScreenShot2018-12-07at4_51_37PM.thumb.png.e7e57133a1d8db75b58e1cf383397697.png

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I don't think there is a way at the moment. I tried turning off "adjust flipped text" but that just inverted the label text when mirrored.

I believe that the Spotlight Lighting Device object has been coded in a specific way so that when it is mirrored the parsed symbol remains unflipped. I think the Data tags could do with this kind of refinement.

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On 12/3/2018 at 7:04 AM, TDimov said:

Hi, Kevin and Eric,

 

About the positioning:

Every option you have shown is possible. You will need a layout if this type:

prof.PNG

I've added 4 loci at the layout's bounds (the circle's min and max x and y) and the whole geometry is on the right of the origin.

Lets label the tags on your picture with hours on a watch face with the vertical being 12 and 6 (7 and 11 missing).

1 and 5 are achieved by having a positive shoulder length and "Allow Multiple Attachment Points" - disabled.

2, 3, 4, 8, 9 and 10 can be made the same way or with "Allow Multiple Attachment Points" enabled, however enabling that parameter can cause the Data Tag to pick another locus to attach the shoulder to depending on the placement.

6 and 12: you need to set the shoulder length to 0 and enable the "Allow Multiple Attachment Points" parameter. Bare in mind that having a shoulder length of 0 will make its control point and the origin one to overlap. In that case the shoulder one takes precedence and will be activated when clicking on them.

The centre one is just without a leader.

 

About the multiple leader lines:

We don't have multiple leaders and don't tag multiple objects because their data can be different. Even if at the time of tagging the extracted data is identical (some extractable data will never be the same in real-world scenarious) there is nothing stopping you from changing it for one object and not for the other. That will lead to inconsistencies at best.

 

Hope this helps.

Just for reference, here's a labelled version of my image.

 

KM

 

1168758903_ScreenShot2018-11-18at9_38_48AM.png.aa457ed101dd2d63d3a342b5e017c7f3.thumb.png.8c2018b1743f09d18287109a23096e16.png

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Here's another issue related to this. There needs to be separation of the tags relationship to the object being tagged and the "alignment" of the tag much like you can separately control those two items with a callout. This other thread details the issue - 

 

Tags shouldn't mirror/flip. It should be possible to keep a tag's orientation and have it appear on the opposite side of the object its tagging. Here's an image showing what I mean -

 

626705699_ScreenShot2018-12-08at10_23_32AM.thumb.png.9b46a84d20e873009b680e4e7f24444a.png

 

The callout (top) behaves as it should, the Data Tag does not.

 

Kevin

 

 

Edited by Kevin McAllister

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I think this is directly related to my positioning wish here -

 

I added detail about this thread to it. The Data Tag should have similar positioning option to a Callout.

 

Kevin

 

( @Jim Wilson I leave it to you to decide if these should be combined)

Edited by Kevin McAllister

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