Jump to content
halfcouple

Exporting to pdf - vs. image file - file size

Recommended Posts

I have rendered a viewport on a sheet layer with 300 dpi resolution.

 

- Exporting this via publish command to a PDF (non rasterized) results in a 5,032 KB file

- Exporting this via Export command to PDF (rasterized) results in a 7,688 KB file

- Exporting this via Export command to PDF (non rasterized results) in a 9,368 KB file.

 

- Exporting this via Export command to jpg (image) file with 300 dpi resolution results in a 987 KB (!!!!)  file.

- Konverting the jpg file back to (rasterized) PDF via print command results in a 1,250 KB file that has the same quality as the 7,688 KB file directly exported from Vecorworks.

 

Maybe anyone here knows the reason for this ?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

JPEG is a smaller more compressed file format, often it can lack colors or definition the other export formats include. However, depending on what you are exporting, the more "lossy" compression formats like jpeg works just fine, because the geometry you are exporting isnt affected by what they cut corners on. I Believe PDFs use PNG images internally by default, but I am not sure. 

All these files being below 9mb at 300DPI though is fairly normal, unless I am misunderstanding what you're asking about.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks much for the reply Jim,

 

I often send my clients small drawings together with quotations so they have an idea of what they will get. These drawings should more be good looking than technically expicit. They should be clear renderings, not "pixellated" with as much resolution and with smallest file possible. I know that's a contradiction, but it does not make sense when they get an e-mail on their smartphone with a 50 kB quote document together with a 7 MB drawing file. I thought I could solve this with PDF files when I optimize the export options, but I guess iI will skip using PDF for that in future and will send out jpg. files.

Edited by halfcouple

Share this post


Link to post

I think this has been discussed previously - VW seems to export very large PDFs with no option to opt for a smaller file size at the expense of a marginal decrease in quality.

 

It's an ongoing source of annoyance for me.

Share this post


Link to post

A follow up to this as today I tried out a couple of PDF resizing apps.

 

I'm on mac.

 

You can reduce the size of a PDF generated in VW using the native Preview app, using the 'export' function with one of the Quartz filters offered, however I find that this results in image quality taking quite a hit.

 

I had some success with two apps, 'PDF Shrink' which got a 20MB file down to 900k but with a bit of quality loss.

'PDF Squeezer' got it down to about 2.5MB with very little quality loss.

 

But then I fiddled around in VW a bit; the document concerned included some JPGs that I'd imported into VW. I noticed that in their OIPs you can adjust their size under 'image attributes'. While it's a bit unclear exactly what this does, the result was vastly reduced file sizes when I exported to PDF.

 

Might be useful for others to know. Not sure if it'll work with rendered viewports though.

Share this post


Link to post

Also trying to keep the quality whilst have a reasonable size pdf file. jpeg files are not an option for planning submissions in the UK as all online submissions and emails to planners have to be in pdf. Preferably each drawing below 5MB or 10 MB at most and total number of drawings / submission 25 MB. Unfortunately this not leave much scope, especially for rendered viewports.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, michael john williams said:

Also trying to keep the quality whilst have a reasonable size pdf file. jpeg files are not an option for planning submissions in the UK as all online submissions and emails to planners have to be in pdf. Preferably each drawing below 5MB or 10 MB at most and total number of drawings / submission 25 MB. Unfortunately this not leave much scope, especially for rendered viewports.

Have you tried fiddling with 'image attributes' as I describe in the post above yours?

 

(I'm also in UK and have the exact same issues with online planning submissions)

Share this post


Link to post
23 minutes ago, michael john williams said:

Thanks, but I can't find 'image attributes' settings in either the viewport object info settings or sheet layer settings. So guess you are referring to just a jpeg import.

For renders, I usually do a 'convert to group' to make it into a bitmap image rather than active viewport once I'm ready to export sheets.

(I make a duplicate of the viewport first, and put it to the side, so that I can bring it back in when I next need to update it)

(This has added side benefit that when you export the sheet, VW does not launch into a time-consuming re-render of the viewport)

Once it's converted to an image then you should be able to find those 'image attricutes settings'.

Edited by line-weight

Share this post


Link to post

Just tested it out:

Converting the viewport to bitmap and publishing the sheet does not reduce the file size as long as the bitmap itself isn not reduced in its resolution. But this method is a good way to control file size vs. quality and keeping the pdf-format.

 

A big advantage of exporting directly to image file is that very big plans which won't fit on standard paper sizes can be exported in good resolution and accectable filesize just as a "zoomable on screen overview" especially for smartphones and tablets.

 

In the end it's a question of the purpose the sheet is made for. I'm using the following methods:

 

- hidden line viewports for anything that is flat and / or 2D and has to look like a technical drawing, exported as pdf or dwg

- medium Open GL viewports for concept drawings or schematical overviews, or 3D section viewports with clip cube, either as pdf or jpg

- final renderworks or "very high open GL" for anything that is for presentation usually for direct print to printer.

Edited by halfcouple

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, halfcouple said:

Just tested it out:

Converting the viewport to bitmap and publishing the sheet does not reduce the file size as long as the bitmap itself isn not reduced in its resolution. But this method is a good way to control file size vs. quality and keeping the pdf-format.

 

I've just tried a few things, having converted a render viewport to bitmap.

 

Going to image attributes and changing it from PNG to JPG made a huge difference. My exported PDF went down in size from 6.7MB to 320KB, and I could see no substantial change in the image quality.

 

Seems like a pretty simple fix...why not just provide 'export images as JPG or PNG' in the export PDF dialogue or better still somehow do all the above automatically when render viewports are exported to PDF.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Yes, you are right, converting only the viewport to jpg seems to have the same size-reducing effect as exporting the whole sheet to jpg, and you can keep the pdf-format. But a problem is that you always have to keep two two copies (one with viewport and one as jpg) of the sheets and manage all this, which is quite time consuming when having 20 or more sheet layers.

 

Yes, this should really be a publishing option!

 

I thought "rasterize pdf" would do this, but this seems to do something else and it increases the file size instead. I just wonder if anyone ever uses this option ? Seems to be an ancient leftover from previous versions.

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, halfcouple said:

Yes, you are right, converting only the viewport to jpg seems to have the same size-reducing effect as exporting the whole sheet to jpg, and you can keep the pdf-format. But a problem is that you always have to keep two two copies (one with viewport and one as jpg) of the sheets and manage all this, which is quite time consuming when having 20 or more sheet layers.

 

Yes, this should really be a publishing option!

 

I thought "rasterize pdf" would do this, but this seems to do something else and it increases the file size instead. I just wonder if anyone ever uses this option ? Seems to be an ancient leftover from previous versions.

I agree it's a pain to have to manage two versions of the viewports. For what it's worth, I don't make a copy of each sheet - I just move the 'live' version of the viewport so it sits outside of the page border. This means it doesn't get included when I export the sheet, but when I want to update the render image, I don't have to navigate to another sheet to find the viewport to geerate it from.

 

I think 'rasterise pdf' makes the whole page as a raster type image, including linework which would otherwise be saved as vector geometry, so it's not really what we are after here because if there's a combination of images and linework on a drawing sheet, it makes sense to keep the linework in vector form for sharpness and presumably efficiency memory-wise.

Share this post


Link to post

Have just realised there's an option to change default from PNG to JPG in VW preferences by the way. I might try changing this.

 

16879154_ScreenShot2019-01-12at16_41_55.thumb.jpg.224dd7552dde11f3dea2c3afb8182f41.jpg

Share this post


Link to post

I was working with big images as map background, resulting to 35MB PDF files no matter the size of the viewport, the downsample setting or checkbox used.
I noticed that when importing the picture into the drawing, changing the resampling method to "high" in the Edit Attributes settings window give me some 33MB less when rendering witch was already a lot less.

I now use different layers with externally cropped and resized pictures corresponding to the field of view I need. Vectorworks now renders 500kB sized PDF...

It's a bit of work in the beginning to align the stack but I can then easily share my pdf living behind a countryside DSL small bandwith...

May help in some cases.

Share this post


Link to post

Are you using cropped images in Vectorworks? I have noticed that Vectorworks tends to export the whole image at original resolution into PDF and not just the cropped part.

 

Using a PDF editor and its "reduce file size" option (if it has one) will throw away the parts outside the crop boundary of the cropped image. Combined with other reduction options (e.g. for resolution etc.) you can reduce the file size quite a bit. This is what I prefer to do over creating cropped parts of an image and reference those.

 

This may seem like an additional step you don't want but the benefit is that you can keep using the full image instead of having to create multiple cropped parts and reference to those. If you are sure you are not going to end up outside the cropped image then this is not a problem, but if you think you may need to increase the area of the crop later on (which I run into quite often in my line of work) then using a PDF editor afterwards will in the long(er) run save you more time and hassle.

Edited by Art V

Share this post


Link to post

Seeing as VW2020 is all about improving user workflow, I look forward to an improved PDF exporter that doesn't export vast amounts of data that isn't visible or necessary in the document you are exporting.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Seeing as VW2020 is all about improving user workflow, I look forward to an improved PDF exporter that doesn't export vast amounts of data that isn't visible or necessary in the document you are exporting.

Me too, it would make things quite a bit simpler so let's hope it will at least (have the option to) automatically purge parts of the image outside the crop boundary for PDFs of drawings containing cropped images. (Without throwing it away in the VWX file). That should be an easy win to achieve.

 

The rest might be a bit harder as you sometimes need to export some of that information, so I would prefer to have some control over this instead of having it automatically done based on whatever VW thinks is the correct way of doing it. (e.g. when they initially automatically purged non-used dwg layers upon import this was a not so pleasant surprise as it affected the drawing structure integrity in certain cases where it had to be kept intact, the same could apply to data and export).

Share this post


Link to post
29 minutes ago, Art V said:

Me too, it would make things quite a bit simpler so let's hope it will at least (have the option to) automatically purge parts of the image outside the crop boundary for PDFs of drawings containing cropped images. (Without throwing it away in the VWX file). That should be an easy win to achieve.

 

The rest might be a bit harder as you sometimes need to export some of that information, so I would prefer to have some control over this instead of having it automatically done based on whatever VW thinks is the correct way of doing it. (e.g. when they initially automatically purged non-used dwg layers upon import this was a not so pleasant surprise as it affected the drawing structure integrity in certain cases where it had to be kept intact, the same could apply to data and export).

 

Should be fairly straightforward surely: you never throw away the data in the source document (ie the VW file) unless the user actively wants to, and you never export to a PDF document data that is outside a crop, because otherwise why would you be using a crop boundary.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Jumping in a bit late here - but wondering if any new developments have been noticed?

 

Im having trouble only after installing 2020. No issues in 2019 or earlier.

 

I have a fairly small .vwx file with a few design layers. I created sheet 1 and 2 with a few viewports. It published to pdf at 4.6MB

I duplicated Sheet 1 to create sheet A and B, and sheet 2 to create Sheet C.  From A and B I deleted a few viewports - basically spreading the original viewports over 2 sheets., 

Now when I publish ABC to pdf, the size is 42.4MB


These sheets have the exact same viewports, just allocated to different sheets. All the sheets live in the same file. (all1&2 and ABC)

What has made the output so large?  

 

Ive been told to rasterize, but there is no such option on the 'publish' window. 

Appreciate any thoughts

 

I'm on Mac OS 10.13 - High Sierra, Vectorworks 2020 SP3.1

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Hi@taliho,

 

in 2020 there are several options to reduce file size. You have to set these for each sheet.

 

ExportSettings.thumb.jpg.e6f43f416b3f266f9b6878fc78532e74.jpg

 

Here are my favorite setings:

- Rasterize PDF:  This usually increases the file size. I use this option only in case I want to avoid that the PDF can be disassembled after exporting.

- Resolution:  I'm using 300 DPI for good quality exports, 120 DPI for sample files and e-mail attachments.

- File size Reduction: I usually leave that untouched, unless I have embedded images (for example camera match objects) on my sheet. If used, I mainly use 300 / 120 DPI as above.

- Apply JPEG compression: alwas On when reducion is activated.

 

1 hour ago, taliho said:

basically spreading the original viewports over 2 sheets., 

 

I suppose this is what increases your file size, I haven't checked this out, but I guess a larger viewport, especially when rasterized will increase the file size in comparison to a smaller viewport with the same content.

 

Hope this helps 😀

 

 

 

Edited by halfcouple

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks - Fantastic! Great help.

I tried it out.  Rasterizing pdf of all 3 sheets - down to 8MB (Even though rasterizing usually increases file size?)

Rasterizing text only on all 3 sheets - down to 4.6MB (Rasterize pdf remains unchecked)

 

Its still a mystery to me - but its working!!!!

(Viewports were not modified in any way. exact same content. The Building Dept changed its requirements and need some blank space on the cover sheet so they can now add electronically things that were stapled to paper copies before. So I moved some of the viewports to a 3rd sheet.)

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, taliho said:

Rasterizing text only on all 3 sheets - down to 4.6MB (Rasterize pdf remains unchecked)

 

 

 

That seems weird - surely rasterising text shouldn't reduce file size - it should be the opposite.

Suggests VW is doing something strange when it exports text to pdf.

Share this post


Link to post

@halfcouple 

My workfow and a couple of things about data and formats foirst

  • VW doesn't clip the viewport, i.e. image files that extend outside the vp are included in the export even tho' they don't show.
  • .pdf's are composite files and VW does unknown things when writing .pdf's which may or may not add size. As VW seems an inefficient CAD (in terms of file size) I would expect .pdf encoding to be likewise.
  • 3D data in the model will add to viewport and hence .pdf size.

I too often send an graphic outline / brief along with the quote, altho' as at this point the money isn't in the bank I keep it very simple (bubble diagram etc), which is  usually <800Kb 

 

Rasterising is counter-intuitive, sometimes adds size, sometimes decreases it. Depends on whether the program sees the data as complex or just complicated, if the former size will likely be smaller, if the latter probably a lot larger.

 

Have you tried other image formats? e.g. ,png for simple graphics - also does vw now do .heic as it is ~50% smaller? Image type should match content type

 

I normally layout pages with all vp's (I normally put images in vp's too). I keep image viewports separate from linework viewports.

 

When it comes to .pdf-ing I export an image from the page of the image content only and re-import that as the image content. This gives me page sizes of around 1Mb

 

 

On 11/14/2018 at 10:50 PM, halfcouple said:

I have rendered a viewport on a sheet layer with 300 dpi resolution.

 

- Exporting this via publish command to a PDF (non rasterized) results in a 5,032 KB file

- Exporting this via Export command to PDF (rasterized) results in a 7,688 KB file

- Exporting this via Export command to PDF (non rasterized results) in a 9,368 KB file.

 

- Exporting this via Export command to jpg (image) file with 300 dpi resolution results in a 987 KB (!!!!)  file.

- Konverting the jpg file back to (rasterized) PDF via print command results in a 1,250 KB file that has the same quality as the 7,688 KB file directly exported from Vecorworks.

 

Maybe anyone here knows the reason for this ?

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


 

7150 Riverwood Drive, Columbia, Maryland 21046, USA   |   Contact Us:   410-290-5114

 

© 2018 Vectorworks, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Vectorworks, Inc. is part of the Nemetschek Group.

×
×
  • Create New...