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eGPU and Vectorworks Testing

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Great to see these numbers Jim. A Custom renderworks test would also be great, esp if baselined by say your MBP, which I think is similar to machines many in this community use.

 

Edited by mjm
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Thanks so much for this Jim.

 

My MacBook Pro is getting long in the tooth and I do need to start investigating the best solution for me.  This has definitely put the Mac Mini in my consideration list.

 

I would like to see how this compares with a MacBook Pro using an eGPU.

 

Rob

Edited by rgcn

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2 minutes ago, mjm said:

A Custom renderworks test would also be great, esp if baselined by say your MBP, which I think is similar to machines many in this community use.


You can judge the custom Renderworks speed of benchmarked hardware directly off of the multi core CPU score with complete faith. For instance the custom renderworks speed of a Cinebench score of 1200 will be almost precisely twice as fast as a machine that scored 600. I used to test both with a custom render test file I made, but the results across 30-some machines proved that the Cinebench score was completely reliable in determining expected render times.

Where eGPUs will show the difference is in the general use and drafting within Vectorworks, which is much more subjective, so ill go with video evidence instead of just raw numbers from a benchmark utility.

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34 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:

1) So far, Nvidia has not released web drivers that work on macOS 10.14 Mojave.

 

So far Nvidia says, the drivers are at Apple waiting for approval.

(Some IT press claims since a few months)

Apple says - nothing.

 

But I wonder about the CB 15 single core results.

Shouldn't these be nearly 200 ?

 

 

Personal opinion,

a Mac Mini with an eGPU (or external drives) isn't Mini anymore.

But who needs a Mini Desktop Computer anyway.

And if so, why not choose a Case Size that fits all(*) nicely in ?

((*) what is currently extending from behind my nMac Pro)

 

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Just now, zoomer said:

But I wonder about the CB 15 single core results.

Shouldn't these be nearly 200 ?

Typo on my part, they are 194 and 198 not 104 and 108 for both. Apologies, fixed in the database as well.

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1 minute ago, zoomer said:

And if so, why not choose a Case Size that fits all(*) nicely in ?


If Apple would freaking finally resume selling one, id push users to buy it. My main motivation with this eGPU testing is that it really, really, really seems like Apple wants to make everyone use eGPUs so that they can still make slim/tiny/aesthetically pleasing devices at the cost of performance. Theyre happy forcing users to carry half a dozen dongles everywhere with their laptop, so it would really not surprise me at this point if the new Mac Pro was just a glossy black sphere with 4 usbC ports that they expect you to plug eGPUs, displays, and dongles of all sorts into.

I dont WANT them to do that, but it's looking more and more like they might, so im preparing information to support users if that eventually happens. I would LOVE to be completely wrong and for them to release a new modifiable, professional chassis that could last users another full decade, and if that happens i will gladly toss all this prep work in the trash.

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So the Mac Mini isn't that bad CPU wise.

No Mac Pro replacement though.

(only 20+% faster than my nMac Pro with its nearly 6 year old 6 core Xeon W)

 

And pity for the onboard only graphics.

(I would have bought one else)

 

My proposal to Apple,

take 2 empty Mac Mini Cases from assembly line,

1x put 2*3 SATA SSD Slots in,

1x put 1-2 Mobile Nvidia GPUs in,

and sell it together with a roll of Duct Tape along your Mac Minis .... to stack on top of each other.

 

 

Edited by zoomer
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39 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:


If Apple would freaking finally resume selling one, id push users to buy it. My main motivation with this eGPU testing is that it really, really, really seems like Apple wants to make everyone use eGPUs so that they can still make slim/tiny/aesthetically pleasing devices at the cost of performance. Theyre happy forcing users to carry half a dozen dongles everywhere with their laptop, so it would really not surprise me at this point if the new Mac Pro was just a glossy black sphere with 4 usbC ports that they expect you to plug eGPUs, displays, and dongles of all sorts into.

I dont WANT them to do that, but it's looking more and more like they might, so im preparing information to support users if that eventually happens. I would LOVE to be completely wrong and for them to release a new modifiable, professional chassis that could last users another full decade, and if that happens i will gladly toss all this prep work in the trash.

 

I'm afraid you're right. And we have three options:

  1. Pay them for this overpriced downclocked heat throttled consumer garbage, buy the eGPUs and dongles... and enable their nonsense
  2. Hold on to the cheesgraters and 2015 MBP's and vote with our dollars
  3. Build a hackintosh (except for laptops?)

But I'm really looking forward to the next season of Carpool Karoke! [extreme sarcasm]

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2 hours ago, Jim Wilson said:

My main motivation with this eGPU testing is that it really, really, really seems like Apple wants to make everyone use eGPUs so that they can still make slim/tiny/aesthetically pleasing devices at the cost of performance.

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying about Apple. I wonder though if Apple sees the eGPU as an interim solution. I feel like if it was the future it would be Apple branded and not a third party offering. I think a lot of eggs may be in the custom chip basket..... There's no way to measure the "Cinebench" GPU score of the new iPad Pro (that I know of) but I'd be curious where it sits on the graphics spectrum.

 

Kevin

 

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17 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

There's no way to measure the "Cinebench" GPU score of the new iPad Pro (that I know of) but I'd be curious where it sits on the graphics spectrum.

 


Oh it's hardware is impressive indeed: 

https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/14/ipad-pro-versus-macbook-pro-speed-tests/

On the (admittedly few) benchmarks you can run on both ios and macos, the Ipad Pros have been holding their own well. I havent seen results for the latest one, this article is from last year. Honestly it's rapidly approaching or already viable that the ipad hardware could support Vectorworks now, but we of course can't just port it over from macos to ios, the UI would have to be dramatically different on such a device. 

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Video added to original post as well, just uploaded so may take a second to process:
 

 

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8 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:


Oh it's hardware is impressive indeed: 

https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/14/ipad-pro-versus-macbook-pro-speed-tests/

On the (admittedly few) benchmarks you can run on both ios and macos, the Ipad Pros have been holding their own well. I havent seen results for the latest one, this article is from last year. Honestly it's rapidly approaching or already viable that the ipad hardware could support Vectorworks now, but we of course can't just port it over from macos to ios, the UI would have to be dramatically different on such a device. 

 

Here's the comparison I read - https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/11/01/new-ipad-pro-benchmarks-are-very-close-to-the-2018-15-inch-macbook-pro

Its multicore processor score is not that far off a current model maxed out 5K iMac which many use as their VW machine.

 

I think everything is going to grow together and we'll have dual UI or hybrid UI software.

 

Kevin

 

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59 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:


Oh it's hardware is impressive indeed: 

https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/14/ipad-pro-versus-macbook-pro-speed-tests/

On the (admittedly few) benchmarks you can run on both ios and macos, the Ipad Pros have been holding their own well. I havent seen results for the latest one, this article is from last year. Honestly it's rapidly approaching or already viable that the ipad hardware could support Vectorworks now, but we of course can't just port it over from macos to ios, the UI would have to be dramatically different on such a device. 

Affinity Photo and Affinity Designer have full working apps on both iOS and Mac. They have created a great UI for the iPad that is different from the Mac version but easy to learn. I enjoy using these apps both on my Mac and iPad. 

 

It it may be worth looking at how they did theirs to figure out how to do it for Vectorworks 🙂

 

Rob

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I also watched a few Mac Mini Videos.

 

Yes, it does throttles, never reaches the max. Boost Clock Speed like

Macbook Pro, iMac Pro.

It does not throttle like the Macbook Pro, but in a more acceptable way

and amount like the iMac Pro does.

(Cinebench cold 1200, Cinebench hot 1130-1150)

So acceptable.

 

But what I don't tolerate for either, iMac Pro or Mac Mini, as a serious Pro

Desktop, is that the Mini CPU hits and runs at 100°C.

 

 

And, while it may not be an issue at all for the large majority.

You can run Bootcamp Windows fine,

but the T2 chip (being also the SSD controller),

will prevent from installing Linux on the internal disk.

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so this is what I have (see below)  

I feel that VW 2019 (multi-core ability)  can finally take advantage of my machine...

 

does this machine have a lot of life or can a new Mini with external graphics be the new way to go?

 

329094835_ScreenShot2018-11-16at12_18_11PM.thumb.png.dd3745da865a92c876007b19899be592.png

1249509742_ScreenShot2018-11-16at12_22_50PM.thumb.png.5d12a9be3f8c8cf2d4a6928cf8de5006.png

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12 minutes ago, digitalcarbon said:

does this machine have a lot of life

 

I think yes.

 

12 minutes ago, digitalcarbon said:

or can a new Mini with external graphics be the new way to go?

 

A maxed out Mini would be max 20% faster CPU wise.

 

As far as it looks you work still fine with your D500 GPU(s) (?)

(I don't know any App beside Luxmark, Blender and AMD Pro Render

that would have ever used both of my D700s)

And if not,

a Mac Mini + eGPU could be an Alternative.

On the other hand you could add the eGPU to your existing Mac Pro too instead. 🙂

(Although it is not as easy with our TB2 as with Mini and official Apple support)

Edited by zoomer

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I don’t think so.

So far only GPU Render Engines and Final Cut.

 

Jim said no a few years ago and did not read that

anything has changed.

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So then the Mac Pro is a waist of money if you are thinking "wow! I have 2 graphic cards!"   

 

and I don't like  the iMac because I don't want to pay for a screen (screens last forever)

 

so then a Mac Mini maxed out is the way to go...

 

of course this whole conversation would be moot if VictorWhiskey was BravoRomeoOscarWhiskeySierraEchoRomeo  BravoAlfaSierraEchoDelta

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🙂

 

I never really wanted that nMac Pro.

I had too as my cMac Pro got too weak for my projects at one point.

At that time it was known that less CPU but double GPU (in macOS)

will not help - but should change in about 2 years later when all

Apps optimize for nMac Pro.

Seems that didn't work out really well .....

 

On the other hand,

it was very silent, didn't get hot and I could do my job with that trash can

and VW/C4D very well the last 4 years. And what you do is very OpenGL

demanding and you wouldn't get that easily anywhere else.

 

1 hour ago, digitalcarbon said:

So then the Mac Pro is a waist of money if you are thinking "wow! I have 2 graphic cards!"   

 

At the end, I wouldn't think so.

 

 

1 hour ago, digitalcarbon said:

so then a Mac Mini maxed out is the way to go...

 

I don't think so.

I can't be sure they will update it regularly and it is surely not enough to be

20% faster than a nearly 6 year old hardware.

You should better wait for the mMac Pro.

 

BTW,

these Dual GPUs always run much better under Bootcamp Windows and

there are some other issues beside Apple's current Hardware only.

So it is more about overall Apple is still a good platform for 3D.

 

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