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Simon Allan

MVR questions

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Hi,

 

I have been experimenting with the MVR import and export functions and have some strange things I don't understand. I am hoping to get some answers/guidance ūüôā

 

I have attached 3 files:

The VWX Test Export is a simple scene with some truss and lights. Everything is classed and lights and truss have rotation settings on them.

The MVR Test export is the MVR export of the file above.

The MVR Test Import is the file above (MVR) being re imported and saved as a VWX file.

 

I have not included any other software yet as I wanted to see what happened when I just went 'Out and In' to VW with the same file via the MVR import/export feature. This is to try and gain a better understanding of how the MVR feature is working (or not working) before trying to get it supported in any other software.

 

So my questions are (relating to the "Test Import from Export" vwx file):

  1. Why are the lights being replaced with a "place holder" and not the actual fixture?
  2. Why do the light place holders contain no 3D rotation info for my lights as it was present in the original VWX file?
  3. Why do the trusses come back as groups?
  4. Why has everything other than the lights and the fan lost its class information?

 

Thanks.

MVR Test Export_Rev02.vwx

MVR Test Import from Export_Rev02.vwx

MVR Test Export_Rev02.mvr.zip

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As I understand it, MVR is not yet supported. It will be interesting to see if some of this is just the point in time, or if some of these are bugs

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Hey @Simon Allan

 

Looping in @bbudzon for some backup, but I'll do my best to answer these questions. It is important to note that while MVR export is now available in Vectorworks, this is a project that is being continually developed and optimized. 

 

19 hours ago, Simon Allan said:

Why are the lights being replaced with a "place holder" and not the actual fixture?

This has to do with the way that programs using MVR treat lighting fixtures. Not every program uses a lighting device in the same way that Vectorworks does, instead they often use native geometry and parameters for how the lighting device should appear and function in their program. For this reason MVR contains info for a light's 3D location as well as some info about the light. The receiving program then decides what object belongs at that location, what attached info is relevant, and how it should behave. 

 

19 hours ago, Simon Allan said:

Why do the light place holders contain no 3D rotation info for my lights as it was present in the original VWX file?

I would have to check up on this, but I might assume it has to do with the first answer. The rotation information is being applied to the geometry of a lighting fixture in a VWX file that is not being transferred through MVR. If true, this would be a sensible optimization for the future. 

 

19 hours ago, Simon Allan said:

Why do the trusses come back as groups?

Not certain what the reason for this is. But I have had several experiences where similar objects ended up grouped together. Another thing I'll need to ask about, but it may just be to simplify the drawing.

 

20 hours ago, Simon Allan said:

Why has everything other than the lights and the fan lost its class information?ÔĽŅ

This sounds like it is working as designed. MVR was created to contain information about lighting devices, 3D Geometry/Locations, and textures. All other info may be extraneous and could lead to larger file sizes and possibly less performance. 

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Thanks for the reply.

 

On 11/13/2018 at 3:28 PM, BSeigel said:
On 11/12/2018 at 7:09 PM, Simon Allan said:

Why are the lights being replaced with a "place holder" and not the actual fixture?

This has to do with the way that programs using MVR treat lighting fixtures. Not every program uses a lighting device in the same way that Vectorworks does, instead they often use native geometry and parameters for how the lighting device should appear and function in their program. For this reason MVR contains info for a light's 3D location as well as some info about the light. The receiving program then decides what object belongs at that location, what attached info is relevant, and how it should behave. 

I guess I understand but would have assumed that going out and then back into VW would mean the fixtures would have been there and not place holders. Maybe my expectations are too high ūüôā

 

On 11/13/2018 at 3:28 PM, BSeigel said:
On 11/12/2018 at 7:09 PM, Simon Allan said:

Why do the light place holders contain no 3D rotation info for my lights as it was present in the original VWX file?

I would have to check up on this, but I might assume it has to do with the first answer. The rotation information is being applied to the geometry of a lighting fixture in a VWX file that is not being transferred through MVR. If true, this would be a sensible optimization for the future. 

To not have rotation transferred makes the purpose of MVR a bit redundant. I really can't see how MVR is "supported" without this most basic of functions.

 

On 11/13/2018 at 3:28 PM, BSeigel said:
On 11/12/2018 at 7:09 PM, Simon Allan said:

Why do the trusses come back as groups?

Not certain what the reason for this is. But I have had several experiences where similar objects ended up grouped together. Another thing I'll need to ask about, but it may just be to simplify the drawing.

Please let me know when you have the answer to this.

 

On 11/13/2018 at 3:28 PM, BSeigel said:
On 11/12/2018 at 7:09 PM, Simon Allan said:

Why has everything other than the lights and the fan lost its class information?ÔĽŅ

This sounds like it is working as designed. MVR was created to contain information about lighting devices, 3D Geometry/Locations, and textures. All other info may be extraneous and could lead to larger file sizes and possibly less performance. 

Seems odd that some objects follow one rule and other objects do not.

 

 

Hopefully you can provide some more concrete answers soon as the more I look the more I feel that MVR is really not supported in anyway that makes it usable in its current form. I know you mentioned that it is still being developed and optimised but you guys really need to calm down on your marketing if that is the case.

Edited by Simon Allan
typo

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Support for MVR is getting better and better, day by day. I have a fairly large update for MVR waiting SP3 approval. Assuming that gets approved and it tests well, SP3 will be a much more interesting release to talk about MVR. For Vision, the first goal is get MVR importing correctly. The issues we are dealing with right now are the Z-up to Y-up conversion, right to left handed conversions, 3D Fixture Information, and the local coordinate system of objects. I'm looking forward to further MVR discussions down the line!

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thanks for the update.

 

so...

 

When is SP3 expected to be released?

Will the SP3 release of MVR support fixture rotation?

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We are in the process of testing MVR changes to see what can and cannot ship for SP3. What problem are you trying to address? Generally speaking, the workflow for Vision 2019 SP2 is to use the ESC exporter. If you run into issue with geometry, you can try OBJ and 3DS exports into Vision.

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I don't use Vision at all and have no intention of using it.

 

I want to use MVR to work with other software and at present, there is no chance of that.

 

Problems at present that need addressing are:

  1. Fixture rotation info
  2. Scale Definition (when you import  into say Sketchup or C4D the scales are wrong)
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Please stay posted for further updates related to MVR, Vectorworks, Vision, GrandMA, Robe, and more ūüôā

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Sorry, but your last post did not tell me anything.

 

Please let me know if the fixture rotation info and scale definition will be fixed in SP3?

Also provide an estimated date for SP3.

 

Thanks

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Unfortunately, I can't commit to saying that any fixes will be shipped for SP3. I also cannot provide a date that SP3 will be shipped.

This is honestly for the greater good though! We don't want to tell you something will be fixed if we haven't put it through proper testing yet!

And similarly, we don't want to tell you that the software will ship on a specific day as you never know what may crop up! I'd much prefer to delay the release by a day if it means getting a quality release out to our customers ūüėČ

 

I hope you understand why we like to remain flexible like this for our customers. I also hope it won't be too long before SP3 will be ready and that we can answer any other questions you have in the meantime!

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I fully understand that you cannot state a date but I was hoping for a ball park estimate of which Month it is expected to fall into.

I would also like to think you could tell me if the 2 fixes I am looking for are due to be implemented in SP3 (subject to all working out OK) or they are definately not due to be implemented.

 

I don't think I am asking anything unreasonable here...just some basic info. After all, you are the guys who decided to market the hell out this MVR thing so please be prepared to give answers when people ask. 

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Simon,

If you are trying to import the information into another application it will need to understand the complete MVR.  Current specifications on the MVR and GDTF are available on the GDTF Share, https://gdtf-share.com/.  If you are working to implement reading/writing of the MVR file please contact the group via the website.

 

The application you are using to read the MVR file must be capable of understanding the entire MVR file, not just the pieces it contains.
MVR contains other files that can be read individual that will generate geometry but without reading the entire MVR, including the GDTF file an application can not properly use the MVR.

If you are only looking at the geometry in the MVR you are missing a lot of data.

As to your question of scale by definition all geometry is represented in mm.

As to the rotation this is stored as part of the fixture instance description in the MVR. It contains both the location and rotation of the fixture. (See the specifications for details.)

All this information is provided on the GDFT Share website.

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Kevin,

 

Did you read my original post?

I put my post here as it only involves VW at present.

I am only trying to go out of VW and straight back in using the MVR. I have not introduced any third party software yet.

 

I have read the wiki here https://gdtf-share.com/wiki/MVR_File_Description#Node_Definition:_Matrix and can see the rotation is defined but it is either getting lost during an export or import in VW...or maybe it never existed in the first place?

 

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