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Charlie Winter

Title Block Border - Geometry Shifted far from Bottom Right Origin

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Anyone else experienced this phenomenon? I don't recall making a change that would have caused this, it seems to happen on its own...

Title_Block_Border.png

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I was training a colleague and it was one of the stock title blocks, the symbol appeared in the correct location, but it did not align as expected on the drawings. I had intended to research this bug, but then came this post.

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I had some issues with a shifting title block the other day. It seems like title block geometry in the new Title Block Border isn't placed using symbol insertion points as it was in the past. Instead its based based on the outside bounding boxes of the title block geometry. I would check the title block geometry to see if it has a bounding box that extends far to one side for some reason. Alternate it may be a display issue.... I've seen lots of weird sheet layer stuff lately especially if there are outdated viewports on the sheet.

 

Kevin

 

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Hi all,

 

If you could send me files with shifted Title Block Border graphics, I could see what is going wrong there.

 

Best Regards,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

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Hello @Kevin Allen,

 

Firstly, thanks for the test file. 🙂

I have opened your test file and everything is OK with the TBB there. Are you sure you have sent me the file with the shifted TBB graphics, while the graphics are still shifted?

 

Here is what I see when I open the file:

ShiftedTB.png

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hmmm, last I looked, if you zoomed in on the lower right hand corner where the title black and border should be aligned, the title block was offset slightly. In the symbol definition, the title block geometry is properly located.

 

 

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Ohh, I got it now. I was expecting to see big shift, as in the first image of this thread.

I suppose that you had this TBB updated from a Sheet Border/VAA Title Block?

When updating old objects, the Title Block Position might be set to "No Constrain", when the position does not match any of the current TBB positions, in order to keep the Title Block visual appearance. If you change your Title Block Position to "Bottom Right" you should fix your problem.

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45 minutes ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

Ohh, I got it now. I was expecting to see big shift, as in the first image of this thread.

I suppose that you had this TBB updated from a Sheet Border/VAA Title Block?

When updating old objects, the Title Block Position might be set to "No Constrain", when the position does not match any of the current TBB positions, in order to keep the Title Block visual appearance. If you change your Title Block Position to "Bottom Right" you should fix your problem.

 

The issue here is actually related to the length of the CAD FILE field (see image). As I mentioned above, the new Title Block Border shifts based on the bounding box of the entire title block object.

 

1820166125_ScreenShot2018-11-13at7_07_05AM.thumb.png.541ca0d7efb43d1161dac2d3870a575a.png

 

I think the missing link here is that there isn't a constraint option that relates to what used to be the symbol origin (eg. the user can't specify a fixed reference point). The title block really shouldn't be shifting based on text input like in my second image where I made the show title extra long. This wasn't an issue with the old Sheet Border.

 

Kevin

 

850707825_ScreenShot2018-11-13at7_15_17AM.thumb.png.f97223a0f403307ee4bf2e81d49b0e50.png

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Kevin,

 

You could achive that by placing at least 2 Loci in the Title Block Border graphics and setting their Point Type to be "Bounding Box Point". That way, only these loci will be used for the calculation of the position of the graphics.

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8 minutes ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

Kevin,

 

You could achive that by placing at least 2 Loci in the Title Block Border graphics and setting their Point Type to be "Bounding Box Point". That way, only these loci will be used for the calculation of the position of the graphics.

 

^ this is awesome. I almost wrote a wishlist item for something like that while I was responding above. Are the two points the equivalent to the diagonal corners of a bounding rectangle?

 

Kevin

 

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OK, where to begin. The work isn't mine, so I have some speculation here. The work was by a client. I believe he used a stock title block from 2019.

 

I did a Save-As and the file name now fits in the boundaries. I did have to 'edit' the title block for the TB to find the change. That seems like a bug, It should know. In any event, the title block has not moved.

 

I was just able to edit the title block Layout and move the title block. That fixed the problem. I had tried that previously, but the move did not work.

 

In 2019, the placement of the title block geometry no longer as it did before, with he lower right point attaching to the border object?

 

I can understand using one Locus, see above, if I want the TB to float away from the border, but I'm not sure why two would be required.

 

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1 hour ago, Kevin Allen said:

I can understand using one Locus, see above, if I want the TB to float away from the border, but I'm not sure why two would be required.

 

The ability to use one locus as the anchor point that the "Constrain Title Block" setting links to makes more sense to me too.

 

Kevin

 

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I didn't even realize that you could add locus points and choose "Bounding Box" - that's great! I've encountered the issue where a wide piece of text was moving title blocks on certain sheets, and didn't know how to fix it.

 

But I agree that I would never have guessed that I'd need to add two loci before it does anything. I would expect to only have to add one locus in the lower right-hand corner in order to achieve the goal. But once you know that you need two, I guess it makes sense.

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So to recap, here's how I'd approach understanding title block placement:

  1. If "Constrain Title Block" is set to "No Constraint", then the geometry is placed relative to where you actually see it on the page when you're in the Title Block Layout editing mode. Moving the whole thing around in the editing mode actually moves it around in the sheet border.
  2. If "Constrain Title Block" is set to "Bottom Right" (for example), then the placement of the geometry relative to the page in the Layout editing mode has no effect. Instead, the geometry is placed based on the widest object's bounding box, which automatically gets moved to the right of the sheet border, and the lowest object's bottom point, which automatically gets moved to the bottom of the sheet border.
  3. To have more control over the placement when using constraints, you must add two locus points and set their Type to "Bounding Box Point" - then these are used to place the geometry on the sheet instead of automatically using the bounding boxes of other objects in the title block. Just as in bullet point 2, the overall placement of the geometry when in the Layout editing mode has no effect on the placement in the sheet border, since it's determined only by the locus points.

Is this all correct?

 

 

Bullet point 3 sounds like the most reliable choice in my workflow.

 

 

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