Workgroup Referencing

[ErichR]

I've read the entries in the discussion groups, and read the manuals for v9, 10, 11 on the topic.

What are users experiences with this concept?

Is it effective?

In what ways is it being used?

[Jonathan Pickup]

it is hugely effective if you use it correctly. there are questions you need to answer before you use this concpet and you have to understand that WGR works in one direction only.

You can use this concept if you ar in a large office to break up a building project into chunks so that several architects can work on it.

If you are the only one in the office, don't bother.

[Travis]

Recently a client asked us to design an additional structure at the far edge of his property. Since we'd already pulled a building permit for a previously completed remodel, the site plan with the proposed remodel was already complete.

Rather than copy and paste the several layers making up the original site plan, I simply WGR'd the original drawing from the new one. It was very quick, and the addition showed up as built. Submission drawings for planning review are already complete.

And I'm the only one that worked on either set of drawings.

Good luck.

[G-Pang]

Yes, it is very effective. This is how we control over 200 staff in my office. It can do more compare to Autocad's Xref.

I give 9.5/10 for it.

G-Pang

[ErichR]

200 is a very large staff. Presumably, they aren't all working on the same pronect, with one file referenced.

What is a good strategy to use to manage drawing info for a large project that may involve more than a couple people?

Also, if you are using sheet layers as placeholders for viewports, and since these can't be copied or exported, if you do the drawing setup routine, you end up with a fistfull of layers that can't be used by anyone else, right?

[Jonathan Pickup]

ErichR,

first you need to answer a couple of questions. These questions are fundamental when setting up your files to work on a large project regardless of the computer program:

1. Exactly how many drawings will be needed on this project? Use Document Content Analysis to work out how many drawings are needed and what will be on each drawing.

2. How many people will be working on the project and what are their areas of responsiblity? With out knowing this you can?t sort out which parts to break up into files, and which need to be linked together.

[ErichR]

Sort of a chicken and an egg thing, isn't it?

[Jonathan Pickup]

if you are talking about developed design and working drawings, then not at all, at the concept stage maybe...

at developed design stage and at working drawing stage the scope of the building shoud be defined, therefore you can work out how many drawings are required, what the content of each drawing should be and how many details are required. You should be able to work out from this CDA (content document analysis) how many man-hours are required for the job.

With the number of man-hours sorted, and the staff costs know, you should be able to work out if you are charging the client enough money...

[Eoin R]

Erich - Just a comment on workgroup referencing. If you are used to using xrefs in either Autocad or Microstation you will be frustrated in assuming that workgroup referencing gives you the same abilities. Difficulties occur when you try to move or rotate the referenced file as any subsequent changes to the reference file will cause it to shift back to its original position and orientation.

I have been told that 'layer linking' gets around this problem but I have not been able to work it out. Hopefully VW can in some future release improve workgroup referencing to make it a more useful and powerful tool.

[Jonathan Pickup]

layer link sure does sort this out. It?s not easy say in words, but basically you WGR the file you want. This gives you a new layer in the file, and this new layer should be Layer linked to a working layer where you can do the work.

[ErichR]

archoncad,

I'll be diplomatic and say that you sound a wee bit condescending. Let's just say that 30+ years, porjects as ^ as $100M USD, and MiniCad since V4, just might have provided a handle on manpower planning. (Not to put too fine a point on it.)

Here's the situation: Without having experience using workgroup referencing or viewports, help with a strategy using these tools would assist with overall (and detail) project and manpower planning.

[Jonathan Pickup]

Sorry to have upset you, I have no idea how much experience you have. My comments were meant in a nice way. I have many clients that still guess how many drawings are needed with out really working it out.

What I?ve found is that if I work out the drawings, then I can figure out how to break up the drawings in to layers, classes and If I need, WGR.

[Jonathan Pickup]

maybe I could help you if you contacted me directly.

jon@archoncad.co.nz

[eric.rktek]

I have 2 cents to add to this discusison. I've been pretty happy with VW referencing functions. We are a small office and use referencing and viewports extensively. Both my partner and I worked on Microstation and Acad for a while in past jobs. We went back and forth on how to set up our files in VW to best suit our needs. We have ended up using the basic setup that we used for Acad.

We have all our vector data (walls, fxtures, linework, etc.) in a 'xref' file. We then have a separate sheet file that the 'xref' gets referenced into. We use the viewport to show what we need to in paper/sheet space. This is really helpful in breaking out files in a way that makes it easy for multiple people to work on them, as well as keeping information well organized in various files. The crop and annotations windows for the viewports are great features, much better than Acad.

The big downside with referencing we have is when we want to reference a plan into an elevation to draft in. (We don't believe in the overall benefit of creating detailed elevations from 3D models). The Layer Link function does provide an intricate work around that allows you to make a link of the layers you are interested in. Reference the (plan) layers you want into the elevation file (make sure you select the show 2d objects box). unlock the link, and move, rotate, or mirror the linked data into the desired position. We find it best to turn off all the original reference layers in from the plan and bing the layer link into a new layer we typically name a 'Plan View 1' or so on. We set up View layers for each floor plan (1st, 2nd, etc) and make sure the links are lined up between view layers. It's a lot of work, but great when it is set up. Oviously, there are uses for this beside plans and elevations, but this example was used to help explain the situation.

The big complaint we have is that it is relatively complicated the first time through, and it is time consuming everytime you need to set up a file. This function could benefit greatly from some development of a dialog box or better tool options. The other feature lacking from the reference capabilities is the ability to crop part of a layer link or reference in a design layer. This is extremely useful in the elevation drafting described above when you want to hide part of a plan that would be in the way of your linework.

The whole referencing and viewport thing has been somewhat difficult for a friend and former employer that has been using VW since Minicad 6. He has developed office standards based on the past decade plus of work that don't take advantage of these new features. It's worth looking into. I can't imagine working without it. There have been several times in the past year that we would have had to resort to some painful, inefficent workarounds in drafting sections, section details, and elevations laid out on our sheets that came out great in the viewports.

Hope this helps, Happy New Year.

[ErichR]

eric.rktek

Thanks for sharing your experience with WGR, layer linking and Viewports. Specifics do help a great deal.

[ 01-03-2005, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: ErichR ]