Jump to content
Zeno

Spot spot spot spot...

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Luis M Ruiz said:

@Zeno Here is a little trick I found from several files users sent. For interior renderings and interior elevations models, instead of just leaving the 3d model seating empty on a surface, how about placing it inside a box?  this will contain all bounces of lights.

Finally, once you get the viewports ready, crop them as needed and adjust the contrast and brightness using image effects. 

Here is an interior rendering for a virtual model, I used to have plenty of those spots and after testing this new technique, seems like light can be controlled better.

 

Tell us later if this suggestion makes any difference for you.

 

interior 1.jpg

 

 

Luis. Your works looking f**king awesome. Really. I love it.

 

I'm not sure to understand what you mean. The model in a Box? Like Jack? 🙂 How can i add natural light in my appartment in a.. box?

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

@Zeno Correct, literally inside of a box, a cube. But here is the approach, for interior renderings that only make use of real lights inside the model this works, as Jim Wilson said in one of his workshops, prevents the bounces of light from traveling infinitely. Think about this method like building a fake store inside of a black warehouse.

But you are right, in case of needing a heliodon object, then no use.

Share this post


Link to post

@Zeno Here is a sample model that worked well with the box approach. The illumination is generated from real light sources. The materials are very simple, wood from our library, a bit of blur, reflection, glass, carpet and white texture for the ceiling. And as you can see, no weird spots.

If you save your settings as a render style you could reuse it when creating a panorama for example.

 

see link:   https://test.vcs.vectorworks.net/links/11e8a20bc32623609be50efe23c56710/

 

expensive closet.jpg

  • Like 2
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post

Good Morning everyone,

 

i a parallel view (and only on a parallel view) i have this problem.. similar... and i don't understand how can i find a Workaround for this

 

1267902614_Schermata2019-03-19alle17_03_13.thumb.jpeg.65256fa5d0e7c6809da1b9096aba0e15.jpeg587572233_Schermata2019-03-19alle17_01_27.thumb.jpeg.74db2c136d5f75cad1eac852a1d6621a.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post

@Zeno I wonder if you have some screen or plane objects not helping this viewport?

Share this post


Link to post
18 hours ago, Luis M Ruiz said:

@Zeno I wonder if you have some screen or plane objects not helping this viewport?

 

Hello Luis.

 

No. It's simply a parallel view of a 3D model. On perspective or axonomethric views there are any problems.

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Totally random.. after some modify everything appear well.. mah..

 

Libreria.thumb.jpg.92c58b1ba9f290c5c373ce421706e100.jpg

Edited by Zeno
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

I also had once in VW2017 exactly the same phenomenon. It appeared also in some perspective Views. It was so random it was hard to find the cause. But finally it disappeared after modifying one certain 2D/3D symbol. Unfortunately I coul'dnt reconstruct the issue to send it to the support.

Edited by herbieherb

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, herbieherb said:

I also had once in VW2017 exactly the same phenomenon. It appeared also in some perspective Views. It was so random it was hard to find the cause. But finally it disappeared after modifying one certain 2D/3D symbol. Unfortunately I coul'dnt reconstruct the issue to send it to the support.

 

i have the same problem. It is totally random.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
On 3/21/2019 at 1:36 PM, Zeno said:

Good Morning everyone,

 

i a parallel view (and only on a parallel view) i have this problem.. similar... and i don't understand how can i find a Workaround for this

 

1267902614_Schermata2019-03-19alle17_03_13.thumb.jpeg.65256fa5d0e7c6809da1b9096aba0e15.jpeg587572233_Schermata2019-03-19alle17_01_27.thumb.jpeg.74db2c136d5f75cad1eac852a1d6621a.jpeg

 

 

 

I had to fight with this even in Cinema4D R20 the whole time.

It is more safe when closing and reopening the file and do your first Renders,

opposed to go on working and rendering again later.

 

Totally random.

Mostly 1-2 from 4 Render Takes got these splotches.

Mine had mostly beige points/bubbles.

You can repeat these takes. Sometimes it works after a second try,

sometimes not, like when you're having tight deadlines.

Edited by zoomer

Share this post


Link to post
On 10/16/2018 at 1:13 PM, PVA - Jim said:

I have also found in my hunting down those spots that if I have highly reflective textures like metal or ceramic, disabling their indirect light emission in the texture options helps this. Usually things like matte painted walls I will leave the Emit Light option on, but im finding more and more that some textures need it disabled to control these effects.

I just gotta say "oh ya"  I found some windows in a render I'm working on (interior Kitchen) and some baseboard and crown moulding where I had a plastic type textured white on them and I was getting the splotchiness and when I went with a straight off white colour with out any other shaders the problem was gone.  It makes sense.

Share this post


Link to post

Holy spots Batman!

728494365_ScreenShot2019-10-14at10_22_28AM.thumb.png.65e980cb68cd81aa769ab99ae7dab260.png

Hey all,

 

I'm having difficulty rendering a gallery space... It's a space with a big window wall at one end so unfortunatly @Luis M Ruiz 'build a box' option isn't going to work for this one (RW background is HDRI Day currently). I tried removing the reflection value from all the textures and still didn't see much of an improvement... Any suggestions here?

 

Chandelier and pendant "bulbs" have glow textures (125% glow) and point light sources with falloff set to 'realistic'...

 

Renderworks Style was a gift from the great @PVA - Jim during the last VW Design Summit (🙏🏻!!! in case you're still prowling around here sir). RWS settings are as follows:

628927825_ScreenShot2019-10-14at10_34_30AM.thumb.png.a65d3c4e502e698efafa030f11fa9ee4.png

 

Edited by James H.
spelling correction

Share this post


Link to post

Q: What does the rendering look like with indirect lighting turned off?

 

The glazing texture on the windows should have its Indirect Lighting Options set to Use Portal.  That will help the renderer sample the light from the direction of the windows.

 

Some of the splotches will improve with higher indirect lighting quality setting but it should be reduced with some investigation of these things which may help it a lot.

 

I am wondering if some of this is coming from the rough reflective floor texture.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks @Luis M Ruiz and @Dave Donley!! Appreciate the time and suggestions.

 

@Dave Donley Thanks for the tip on the Portal option for the Glass RW texture. Can you tell me more about what it does? It seems like it should be triggered by default for windows as the window tool brings the glass texture into the file by default... are there cases where a window would not be a Portal?

 

@Luis M Ruiz Thanks for digging into this one. I did some further exploration of the Pendant and Chandelier symbols I'd created and you were correct, the issues was with the Point Light objects being placed inside the cylinders of the pendant (and rings of the chandeliers too for that mater). I swapped the Point Lights out for Spot Lights in the Pendant symbols (and moved them lower in the cylinders). I also Extracted the interior surfaces of the cylinders and rings and re-textured them to a Glow texture (was able to keep the point lights in the Chandeliers without an issue).

1409014035_ScreenShot2019-10-14at4_45_45PM.thumb.png.c8453769744669431f7d6ec5a9e42163.png1374738184_ScreenShot2019-10-14at4_56_27PM.thumb.png.3d4a67a8fc46412d016eb013c5dc936f.png

 

Solved the case of the mysterious spots well enough that I could add the reflective values back into all my textures without any issues! AND... Voilà:

759187618_ScreenShot2019-10-14at5_05_23PM.thumb.png.6110fb5e2e75802ea1b5e29ba86a3198.png

 

Again, super huge thank you to @Luis M Ruiz and @Dave Donley as well as the Forum community on whole for the helpful tips and for being here as a resource!!!! What a great place to keep learning. 🙏🏻 🎉

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Regarding portal option for textures, yes windows create glazing texture that has this set by default.  However if you create your own texture this will not be set.  It helps the renderer make sure to send rays toward those openings and not just find the sky by chance.  It doesn't help speed but it can really help quality when significant lighting is coming from the window openings rather than other sources.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 10/15/2019 at 2:14 AM, James H. said:

Thanks @Luis M Ruiz and @Dave Donley!! Appreciate the time and suggestions.

 

@Dave Donley Thanks for the tip on the Portal option for the Glass RW texture. Can you tell me more about what it does? It seems like it should be triggered by default for windows as the window tool brings the glass texture into the file by default... are there cases where a window would not be a Portal?

 

@Luis M Ruiz Thanks for digging into this one. I did some further exploration of the Pendant and Chandelier symbols I'd created and you were correct, the issues was with the Point Light objects being placed inside the cylinders of the pendant (and rings of the chandeliers too for that mater). I swapped the Point Lights out for Spot Lights in the Pendant symbols (and moved them lower in the cylinders). I also Extracted the interior surfaces of the cylinders and rings and re-textured them to a Glow texture (was able to keep the point lights in the Chandeliers without an issue).

1409014035_ScreenShot2019-10-14at4_45_45PM.thumb.png.c8453769744669431f7d6ec5a9e42163.png1374738184_ScreenShot2019-10-14at4_56_27PM.thumb.png.3d4a67a8fc46412d016eb013c5dc936f.png

 

Solved the case of the mysterious spots well enough that I could add the reflective values back into all my textures without any issues! AND... Voilà:

759187618_ScreenShot2019-10-14at5_05_23PM.thumb.png.6110fb5e2e75802ea1b5e29ba86a3198.png

 

Again, super huge thank you to @Luis M Ruiz and @Dave Donley as well as the Forum community on whole for the helpful tips and for being here as a resource!!!! What a great place to keep learning. 🙏🏻 🎉

 

So the process you used is

 

1) set portal to windows

2) get out the light from lamps

3) set only glow textures from the lamp?

 

That's all? Right?

 

What happened if you set blurriness to off and disabled "ambient info" from Render Style?

 

Can you post a result whit this 2 changes? Look at the render time too please.

 

Share this post


Link to post

For another time I found this problem. At  this time in animation (there is some issue to fix) on a mirror surface.

 

But unfortunately the bug is going to the same "process" (with the same person) where every bug is always moved forward in time. For years, from version to version.

It's years I posted bugs and posts about this spot problem. 

 

Actually we have a good result from @James H. and I'm happy for him. But sorry.. it's an empty large room. It's easy to fix this. What about hundred of textures, hundred of object? What about if I need the windows glass with a glass reflection and not like a portal? What about a realistic light without ambient windows?

 

I appreciate the workarounds, for little time. I'd like to know if this "spot spot" spot problem will be fixed or not. Maybe I'll start to learn Cinema 4D (but I prefer to stay into rendtrworks, because I like it).

 

I'd like to now something more about the renderworks engine updating.

 

Share this post


Link to post

Hi @Zeno

 

Here are the results with the original file with the Renderworks Style modified as you requested (Blurriness to off and disabled "ambient info") = no improvement.

1240197159_ScreenShot2019-10-17at9_38_49AM.thumb.png.805c4c50d2d951f5a6a924300db14440.png

 

Unfortunately I do not think my spot symptoms were the result of the same bug you are experiencing...

 

And yes, you are correct on the three steps that corrected the issue in my file. Ultimately I think the issue was from the Light Objects (Spot and Point) hitting round/concave surfaces very close to them... Ostensibly the curved geometry was randomly 'focusing' the light bounces and creating the spots around the room.

11 hours ago, Zeno said:

So the process you used is

 

1) set portal to windows

2) get out the light from lamps

3) set only glow textures from the lamp?

 

That's all? Right?

 

Sorry my issue didn't help you resolve yours. Regardless, thanks for starting this thread. Your models and renders are inspirational and this topic and the contributors have been incredibly educational. I look forward to hopefully reading about the resolution of your issue soon.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
15 hours ago, James H. said:

Hi @Zeno

 

Here are the results with the original file with the Renderworks Style modified as you requested (Blurriness to off and disabled "ambient info") = no improvement.

1240197159_ScreenShot2019-10-17at9_38_49AM.thumb.png.805c4c50d2d951f5a6a924300db14440.png

 

Unfortunately I do not think my spot symptoms were the result of the same bug you are experiencing...

 

And yes, you are correct on the three steps that corrected the issue in my file. Ultimately I think the issue was from the Light Objects (Spot and Point) hitting round/concave surfaces very close to them... Ostensibly the curved geometry was randomly 'focusing' the light bounces and creating the spots around the room.

 

Sorry my issue didn't help you resolve yours. Regardless, thanks for starting this thread. Your models and renders are inspirational and this topic and the contributors have been incredibly educational. I look forward to hopefully reading about the resolution of your issue soon.


 

thank you a lot

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

 

7150 Riverwood Drive, Columbia, Maryland 21046, USA   |   Contact Us:   410-290-5114

 

© 2018 Vectorworks, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Vectorworks, Inc. is part of the Nemetschek Group.

×