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Jim Wilson

Teaser Tuesday - 2D Components for Hybrid Objects - Vectorworks 2019

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Looking forward to watch the explanation video.

Lots of my unwritten questions were answered already after re-watching the teaser video.

 

But I think the side views itself and the LOD option is are great (btw: shiny NEW) features.

 

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A couple more questions/ideas -

  1. I was assuming that only architectural hybrid PIOs can access this but maybe that's not true. Will this work with lighting instruments and soft goods?
  2. Can the side section component be used even if a symbol is sitting at an angle in plan view? In the entertainment industry the graphical convention on the section is to show a side on section cut through a lighting instrument even if the instrument is rotated on the plan.
  3. Now that PIOs can have multiple 2d components couldn't stairs have upper floor/lower floor components in the future.....                          

Kevin

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On 8/29/2018 at 4:22 PM, Matt Overton said:

Why should design layers always be 1:1?

 

The model is the true size, the visualisation is purely for discussion with the driver.

To me, eye on the prize work at what scale is going to get the job done and always think about what is needed to get the job done.

 

Exactly. Drawing at 1/8" scale with a 0:0 at DC, positioned where I want the model on an Arch D/E page size, with fonts for dims/notes/callouts at 10/12pt... saves a ton of time annotating SLVP's. The less I have to enter an edit mode in this app, the faster I finish.

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I was wondering if in Spotlight, the acompanied spotlight labels that are now only visible in top plan view. Can also be made visible in these views? This could be an interesting 3D label option. 

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14 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

I was assuming that only architectural hybrid PIOs can access this but maybe that's not true. Will this work with lighting instruments and soft goods?

 

I don't know know which objects in Spotlight work with this feature, but pretty much any hybrid PIO should.

 

14 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

Can the side section component be used even if a symbol is sitting at an angle in plan view? In the entertainment industry the graphical convention on the section is to show a side on section cut through a lighting instrument even if the instrument is rotated on the plan.

 

These special behaviors of the Lighting Device may not make good use of the feature just yet. However, we do have some ideas of how the lighting device could be improved to do things like this in a future version.

 

14 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

Now that PIOs can have multiple 2d components couldn't stairs have upper floor/lower floor components in the future.....                          

 

Possibly. We do have some other ideas of how objects like stairs can better represent themselves on different floors in the future.

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5 hours ago, Sebastiaan said:

I was wondering if in Spotlight, the acompanied spotlight labels that are now only visible in top plan view. Can also be made visible in these views? This could be an interesting 3D label option. 

 

Possibly. I'm not really the best person to be answering Spotlight questions. 🙂 These objects have behaviors quite different than objects in other areas of Vectorworks. In general, we'd rather move away from placing 3D tags in the model to have them show up on drawings. It's not as flexible as it should be because you cannot move the tags where you need them for each drawing. We do have some good ideas of how this could be done though.

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i really like that...if we do interiors and use realistic chair symbols it was very easy to create a hybrid object with the "render bitmap tool" in open GL and alpa transarency (a bit tricky with resolution and scale though) , where a hidden line was often a fail...would be great to have this option too ,even it has no proper snapping etc....

3D top view.png

copy to polagon hidden line.png

open gl with alpha channel.png

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27 minutes ago, joerg said:

i really like that...if we do interiors and use realistic chair symbols it was very easy to create a hybrid object with the "render bitmap tool" in open GL and alpa transarency (a bit tricky with resolution and scale though) , where a hidden line was often a fail...would be great to have this option too ,even it has no proper snapping etc....

 

Hi joerg,

Be aware that these graphics are rendered only in hidden line mode for objects beyond the cut plane. Due to limitations in hidden line render modes, bitmaps and 2D fill attributes (other than hatches) will not display in Vectorworks 2019. However, we have made some improvements that include display of line types in hidden line. On the other hand, 2D components that display in the cut plane (when an object is cut) do display full 2D attributes because they're not rendered in hidden line. We do understand the need for displaying other 2D attributes for objects beyond the cut plane and are exploring possibilities for future versions.

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Thanks Matt,

i just wanted to show my "workarround" with these 2D png files in screen plane ...worked quite well and is a quick solution for complex forms. As walls are hybrid and a floorplan looks better in 2d etc. i know there are so many demands....hard to please everybody! We'll see!

 

Edited by joerg

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6 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

However, we have made some improvements that include display of line types in hidden line.

 

^ this is an interesting piece of information........ is this for 2d or for 3d objects?

 

KM

 

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20 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

^ this is an interesting piece of information........ is this for 2d or for 3d objects?

 

It should work in both 2D and 3D. However, it may not work well for curved geometry that becomes faceted.

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On 8/29/2018 at 3:50 PM, Jan-Burger TROOST said:

Same here. I don‘t have Facebook, but hear the Q&A is like a second screen to the forum. Is there another way to see them?


The recordings of the livestreams have all been added to the teaser playlist on Youtube, so that anyone can view them. They're the last videos in the list which also includes the teaser vids themselves: 

 

 

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I have created a test file (attached).  It seems to me that it is rather slow to update the viewport when all that is being shown is a 2d component of the symbol.  Am I doing something wrong?

Test.vwx

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14 hours ago, The Hamma said:

I have created a test file (attached).  It seems to me that it is rather slow to update the viewport when all that is being shown is a 2d component of the symbol.  Am I doing something wrong?

Test.vwx

 

@The Hamma ,

 

It looks like most of the objects in the 3D Component are set to display along with the 2D components. This is causing the objects to be rendered in hidden line behind the displayed 2d component. Try editing the 3D component of the symbol, select all of the objects, click on the "Display with 2D Components" button in the Object Info platte and uncheck all of the options. Once you do that, it should render much faster.

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1 hour ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

@The Hamma ,

 

It looks like most of the objects in the 3D Component are set to display along with the 2D components. This is causing the objects to be rendered in hidden line behind the displayed 2d component. Try editing the 3D component of the symbol, select all of the objects, click on the "Display with 2D Components" button in the Object Info platte and uncheck all of the options. Once you do that, it should render much faster.

Thanks that was the issue. 

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Regarding the Generate 2D from 3D Component function...

 

On 8/30/2018 at 12:57 PM, Matt Panzer said:

This functionality will be constrained to the command with 2D Component edit mode for VW 2019. However, we will certainly be exploring other places for it in future versions.

 

After playing with it a bit and seeing the great CURVED results that it creates, I'd absolutely recommend placing this command alongside Convert to Lines and Convert to Polygons under the Edit<Convert menu. It's essentially Convert to Polylines! It's great!

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16 hours ago, Andy Broomell said:

Regarding the Generate 2D from 3D Component function...

 

 

After playing with it a bit and seeing the great CURVED results that it creates, I'd absolutely recommend placing this command alongside Convert to Lines and Convert to Polygons under the Edit<Convert menu. It's essentially Convert to Polylines! It's great!

It is very good. It generates nice clean geometry. I would be good technology to integrate into the Autohybrid conversion too.

Kevin

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Anyone tried putting a whole project inside a symbol yet, to see if they can use this function to generate nice editable elevations....?

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To confirm then, these new 2D components only show up in hidden line viewports and hidden line sections orthogonal to the components plane?

 

It would be nice if these showed up in the wireframe viewport as well, more similar to how plan view hybrid objects work. The hidden line pass in my current file still takes about 20 min even with the main elements getting the front component treatment. 

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They work fine in Top/Plan viewports (wireframe). Just tried it on a project. What they don't seem to work on is any symbols used within a plug-in (Spotlight Lighting device and seating tool are the ones I've tried so far.....)

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Hi Justin,

 

1 hour ago, Justin R Smith said:

To confirm then, these new 2D components only show up in hidden line viewports and hidden line sections orthogonal to the components plane?

 

Correct.

 

1 hour ago, Justin R Smith said:

It would be nice if these showed up in the wireframe viewport as well, more similar to how plan view hybrid objects work. The hidden line pass in my current file still takes about 20 min even with the main elements getting the front component treatment. 

 

Would it be possible to send me the file privately? I'd like to see what it is that is taking the render so long.

 

i'm not sure how well 2D component display would work in wireframe unless most every object were to contain them. Top/Plan is a bit different because most objects already display them. And the ones that do not (3D primitives, solids, extrudes) display in wireframe which is not desireable. However, this still would be worth investigating for a future version due to the speed advantages.

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1 hour ago, markdd said:

They work fine in Top/Plan viewports (wireframe). Just tried it on a project. What they don't seem to work on is any symbols used within a plug-in (Spotlight Lighting device and seating tool are the ones I've tried so far.....)

did you set up the 2D views in those symbols?  we did not set them up, only the Plumbing fixtures got treated with 2D views by us here.  just not enough time to do all the content, and the issue with some things not always being placed perpendicular to a cut plane added to the decision on what to preset with the 2D.

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I"ve been playing with this feature a bit. Thumbs down for the disappearing Display 2d Components checkbox that is visible only if Background Render is set to Hidden Line. Its reasonable for it to be greyed out when its not available but disappearing interface items are not cool.

1621906744_ScreenShot2018-09-30at1_29_37PM.thumb.png.79b29298ef7ce7c50d026526cbeedaf4.png

 

Also, as a wishlist item I should be able to use 2d Components whenever Hidden Line is used, even if its the Foreground Render setting. I often work with my Background Render set to OpenGL and my Foreground Render set to Hidden Line.

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 

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16 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

I"ve been playing with this feature a bit. Thumbs down for the disappearing Display 2d Components checkbox that is visible only if Background Render is set to Hidden Line. Its reasonable for it to be greyed out when its not available but disappearing interface items are not cool.

 

Here's the reasoning behind the current behavior: Let's say you rendered in Hidden Line and turned the option on. Now you change the render mode to OpenGL. If VW automatically greys and unchecks it, the setting is lost when the user switches back to Hidden Line. VW could grey and leave it checked. But this is also confusing since the setting is really turned off for that render mode.

 

16 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

Also, as a wishlist item I should be able to use 2d Components whenever Hidden Line is used, even if its the Foreground Render setting. I often work with my Background Render set to OpenGL and my Foreground Render set to Hidden Line.

 

When the Display 2D Components option is used, the 3D component (in most cases) is replaced by the 2D. This would leave OpenGL rendering the 2D component in the background. This would not provide great results. If you're wanting to render the 3D components in in OpenGL (background render) and 2D Components in Hidden Line (foreground render), that might also provide odd results. Think of symbolic 2D graphics over 3D shaded geometry that doesn't match up. I'm not saying that all cases would be like this, but many would. This would also significantly increase render time since the viewport would have to render the 3D geometry first, then swap the 3D components with 2D components and render in hidden line again. That all said, we certainly can explore this in the future if good use cases arise.

 

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