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macOS Mojave (10.14) Compatibility

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3 hours ago, Robin Mair said:

It is not the OS that needs to be compatible with VW, but the other way around!

Yes, I wrote that part in the wrong order, yet the whole post I wrote still has the point of my message.

 

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So VW can tell me 100 times a day that the new VW is out and I should try it, but I can't get an email letting a Service Select customer know of a major issue? Awesome customer service there guys. Oh don't worry everyone I learned my lesson, I will not upgrade right away any more, I have already subscribed to the forum thing, super amped about that BS in my inbox now :/, and when it comes time for renewal my boss and I will have a long talk about the cost of Service Select and that will probably not get renewed. Did my account rep know? Did VW know before OS release of POTENTIAL problems? In all my years of Apple product ownership, using almost every version of OS X, iOS, and so so many various programs in all kinds of industries this is literally the first time I've ever experienced a problem this massive. This is a huge huge issue and the roll out of information to end users was so...seriously an email would have been great, the reply that "well it was here on the forum" is just....like could you imagine if a car company did a recall via an online forum? Just email everyone and apologize and admit yall dropped the ball, that may save some of these customers who I guarantee are shopping around today. No need to reply to this either I only check forums when I have issues, like the rest of the world.

 

 

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4 hours ago, jwatson4 said:

So VW can tell me 100 times a day that the new VW is out and I should try it, but I can't get an email letting a Service Select customer know of a major issue? Awesome customer service there guys. Oh don't worry everyone I learned my lesson, I will not upgrade right away any more, I have already subscribed to the forum thing, super amped about that BS in my inbox now :/, and when it comes time for renewal my boss and I will have a long talk about the cost of Service Select and that will probably not get renewed. Did my account rep know? Did VW know before OS release of POTENTIAL problems? In all my years of Apple product ownership, using almost every version of OS X, iOS, and so so many various programs in all kinds of industries this is literally the first time I've ever experienced a problem this massive. This is a huge huge issue and the roll out of information to end users was so...seriously an email would have been great, the reply that "well it was here on the forum" is just....like could you imagine if a car company did a recall via an online forum? Just email everyone and apologize and admit yall dropped the ball, that may save some of these customers who I guarantee are shopping around today. No need to reply to this either I only check forums when I have issues, like the rest of the world.

 

 

 

 

Jim Wilson posted on July 12 that Vectorworks users should not upgrade to Mojave. Long before apple released it. It’s up to the user to make sure their applications work with the operating system and computers they choose to use. 

 

Jim’s post is here 

 

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Well we don't all hangout on this forum waiting for someone to tell us something important that should have been sent to us in a more formal manner.

 

Plus the story just does not hold water, how could they know in July that there would be problems with their software when they state that they cannot do anything to their software until Apple is done making changes. Apple was certainly still making changes in this timeframe. I personally don't care one way or another, I just do not like the fact that I pay an annual subscription for a software service that I expect to work with the current OS on my platform of choice, if it is not going to work when released then I should be told up front that is is not compatible. This should have been present in the announcement email that was sent to all users. How hard would it have been to state this upfront. I realize this might have created more angst but at least we would have known.

 

I do development as well as my CAD work so I have to run the latest OS so I can ensure my code works on it. I cannot afford to have a second machine dedicated to VW, and I certainly don't want to run it from an external drive as that would be even worse than the current state of affairs.

 

All I care about is knowing WHEN I WILL be able to run the software on my OS, it is that simple. If I cannot run it now fine, but tell me when I should be able to run it!

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What is so important in Mojave that everyone has to have it on release day?

 

I totally understand that people shouldn’t need to hang out on the forum all day, BUT it is so easy to do a search when contemplating upgrading an OS or computer to see what is required for that software to run or if there are issues with an OS. 

 

Apple is notorious for changing builds and removing items from a build just before release day. 

 

Yes, it is a fair expectation that a new application will work in the current OS. Please note, the current OS at the time of release of 2019 was High Sierra. Mojave has only been live since Monday. 

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14 hours ago, Todd McCurdy said:

Empathy, Dude. It's still a thing. An email warning should have been the minimum. Not everyone hangs out here.

You don’t have to hang out here... it was posted on the support channel of the website months ago. I also got an email saying not to upgrade to Mojave the other week.

 

It sucks for those who did upgrade - but lets employ some logic here. What was the current OS 2019 was developed on? 10.13. What was the current OS when 2019 was released? 10.13. So it stands to reason that there may be issues in a new OS released post VW 2019 development and release. Apple have never given a rats arse about their user base - they will always do what they think is best and develop the OS and the product as they see fit. I’m sure if they did, they wouldn’t have dropped the openGL bombshell from a stage. Did Vectorworks get an email from Apple about dropping open GL? Probabaly not....

 

Here’s an example.. when Apple brought Emagic for Logic Audio, they promptly did a version update from 5.5 to 6 - to basically kill the windows version - their arrogant response? Buy a Mac. Then they decided they wouldn’t support the then current cross platform plugin format VST and created Audio Units - meaning every single plug in developer now had to port their software to be AU compatible to work in Logic - and that took some time beyond the version released with AU; and just for good measure - they canned support for the then current cross platform audio computer to hardware interface streaming format ASIO and developed their own one - Core Audio. So now all the hardware vendors had to make new drivers; the fallout from this making a lot of hardware redundant with no drivers as the development costs weren’t worth it and they focused on newer or upcoming products. This made a lot of people, developers and companies incredibly angry and like everything, this furore is now lost in the mists of time; but I’ve never trusted Apple since and boy, it was a top learning experience. Compare that to making a poor judgment call to upgrade to a not supported OS is a drop in the ocean, so to say this doesn’t or shouldn’t happen is very naive.

 

Anyhoo, by the time the first developer beta was released 2019 was likely feature locked and development was focused on bug fixing (yeah....) for the final build for release, so it stands to reason when Apple announce a new OS with OpenGL deprecation it was going to be a kick in the balls for VW. Graphisoft were most probably in a better position to deal with the issue having been at the end of development and had released Archicad 22 before Mojave was announced, so could tackle it quicker. 

I also bet there is a tonne of disclaimers in the small print of Apples’ developer agreement to access the developer betas, covering things like OS features announced, yanked or not included because of xyz reason and not being a done deal until the golden master is announced, so they don’t get sued. So VW rightly so don’t blow their engineering resource on something that could very well change at Apples whim and of course they don’t need to tell anyone.

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4 hours ago, Robin Mair said:

Plus the story just does not hold water, how could they know in July that there would be problems with their software when they state that they cannot do anything to their software until Apple is done making changes. Apple was certainly still making changes in this timeframe.

 

I have read this thread for long and have braked very very hard not to answer but here I cannot do else.

 

If a software vendor does warn early that his software works badly with an early macOS Beta, do I jump into the cold water without checking before that the situation has significantly changed? (Sorry, but I have never seen any post in this forum signaling an "all-clear" for using any VW with macOS 10.14.)

Edited by Nicolas Goutte

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5 hours ago, rgcn said:

What is so important in Mojave that everyone has to have it on release day?

 

Tracking prevention in Safari 12

(OK, that came to 10.13 too a few weeks ago)

 

Gallery View and Quick Edit in Finder - really cool

 

All the rest is more hindering, useless and degrading - for me 🙂

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All my demanding Pro Apps are cross platform.

C4D R20 was released some weeks ago and hasn't got any SP's until now.

R19 runs well too and I am convinced the older Versions I already cleaned

up now would too. 

Latest Modo was released month ago and did not get any SP's so far.

Even my at least 5 year beloved Modo 701 Version still runs fine.

Bricscad Mac got an update a few weeks ago but I doubt that had anything

to do with Mojave but fixing their own issues.

Blender 2.79 (April) or 2.80 Alpha runs fine.

Old Parallels 13 runs, Virtual Box runs, ...

 

I am wondering why VW is so sensitive and special to macOS updates at all.

Every cycle there were 3-4 things that broke.

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3 hours ago, zoomer said:

I am wondering why VW is so sensitive and special to macOS updates at all.

 

Mostly because we lean so heavily on Mac core UI elements, like the color picker and font handling and other things that users including myself want upgraded in the UI. A lot of the things people have been asking for (and that we have planned) are going to simplify and remove a lot of secondary and tertiary problems that arise from us leaning on them so heavily as well.

However, the Mac side will most likely still be the most restrictive in terms of backwards compatibility regardless of how far away from their base tech we get, that's just how Apple likes to run things.

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Thanks for the update, any sort of eta on a fix? I suspect it’ll be a while since a lot of core UI needs to be tweaked. 

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2 minutes ago, Thiselton said:

Thanks for the update, any sort of eta on a fix? I suspect it’ll be a while since a lot of core UI needs to be tweaked. 

None yet. I know we don't have a version of 2018 or 2019 inhouse yet that is completely free of Mojave issues. I would suspect it would come weeks from now and not merely days, but thats a best guess.

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Just got this in my inbox... Protools is the defacto standard used globally in major recording and post production studios by the big name producers and engineers... a bit late I have to say.. but then none of these operations would have installed Mojave anyway...

protools.thumb.png.20e15448d3dc442180e0b4bd8489ed4b.png

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Btw, to solve the issue of the TEXT/FONT freezing everything, I found out that if you do this you can speed up a little:

 

- make a new text (this will be slow)

- make a new line

- select this new line

- try to edit the previous text (without deselecting the new line)

 

Same thing if you move text, do a new line, keep it select it, add to the selection a text and move.

 

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Forum newbie, thanks for putting up with me!

Thanks so much for all this information, Jim. I'm in the middle of computer shopping (it's been a long time coming) and was like 99% sold on a new MacBook - but that will come with Mojave only. I've had various timing issues between getting my license and having a computer that works and things (all of which I'm responsible for, it's been a crazy few months) but am now basically left in the situation of having drafting deadlines approaching, student license being done, and my current computer being unable to run my new 2019 license because it's just too old. 

So it sounds like using Bootcamp and buying a Windows 10 OS of my own is the best way around this in order to keep working for the next month or so? (Or, I guess, making my next laptop a PC instead...don't really want to make this the defining factor in my decision unless necessary though.) I'm just doing 2D things in Spotlight, lighting plot and such, but sounds like most functions are just not working with Mojave? Just wanted to check that I understand the situation. Sorry if this is not an appropriate way to ask this question.

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I think we all agree that lots of pree-warnings for any communications systems

(Website, eMAil, Notification, Press, Social Media, ...) before an macOS, and

even before Public Beta releases, could prevent some harm.

 

People who choose Apple are mostly less tech savy or not interested in being

bothered by tech at all and now Apple is really pushing people to upgrade early.

(Installer loads automatically, no "Later" Button but red close light only and I'm

sure the dialog will reappear and bother every now and then)

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On 9/27/2018 at 5:44 PM, Jim Wilson said:

Mostly because we lean so heavily on Mac core UI elements

 

I think like to hear that. That's their way to go and most Mac-only Software does.

But the screw that up with any release anyway ?

 

 

On 9/27/2018 at 5:44 PM, Jim Wilson said:

like the color picker

 

It is important to have one.

And not one like from Windows (last time I checked it was still that old ugly 90's version)

The Apple Color Chooser is ok but I prefer the proprietary ones integrated in my other 3D Apps.

So I would not moan if it will be replaced by a nice HSV optimized proprietary version in the future.

 

 

On 9/27/2018 at 5:44 PM, Jim Wilson said:

font handling

 

Well, from my point of view Apple completely screwed that up since Mojave by

stopping Micro Pixel Antialiasing. It looks totally ugly, sloppy and unreadable

on non-retina screens.

And you have to do some Terminal actions to change Font Lineweight to make it

less bad.

 

 

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1 hour ago, zoomer said:

People who choose Apple are mostly less tech savy or not interested in being

bothered by tech at all and now Apple is really pushing people to upgrade early.

 

This kind of generalization on the difference between Mac and pc users is not helpful or germane to the conversation at hand. 

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I think I was a bit misunderstood.

 

I am pretty sure that Macs are easier to use for those that aren't that tech savvy

and that most of such users will finally find and use that system over failing

with Linux or FreeBSD on the other end of the spectrum.

And second I totally agree with Apples philosophy that users shouldn't be bothered

and distracted by such technical details but be able to concentrate on their work.

 

So this no joking or critics on non tech savvy people at all but the opposite.

I highly respect all these people who are able to focus on their tasks and avoid

to develop some interests in understanding or fun in dealing with such distracting

side effects, like I tend do.

 

But letting the OS-depending concentration of non tech savvy people aside,

or that a lot of tech savvy App developers using Macs and that there are many

non-tech savvy people using Windows,

the current Problem is mostly about Mac users and the Apple OS releases only.

 

And my point is that it is very very likely that many many VW-using Mac users will

easily run run into such issue.

And so a good idea to further increase the efforts to prevent them from doing so.

 

 

Edited by zoomer

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Tested with converted files, and with a new blank file.I have a feeling this is related to my installation of Mojave. Seriously, how is it possible that VW 2019 is not compatible with Mojave? It's not like beta versions of the OS weren't available for a long time.

Edited by Bruce Kieffer

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I've in stalled VW2019 on the MacOS release of Mojave, all works fine except text, slows the programme down to an unacceptable level. So much so that I now cannot work in 2019 or re-install 2018 having re-installed MacOS High Sierra. VW have had months and umpteen beta releases to get this right? We are professionals using this programme and our livelihood's are being threatened.

 

VW when are you going to put this right??

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