WWDC happened - OpenGL gone

[PVA - Admin]

13 hours ago, Matt Overton said:

I would have thought a Web version would working by running VGM on webGL or webGPU and Python/Vectorscript on WebAssembly. No need for a VM anywhere just some nice little weight servers (like GIT hosts) somewhere to hold document and scripts and version them.

Only if we rebuilt Vectorworks completely and totally from scratch. Which would either take years to bring the web version into feature parity with the desktop version, or be really limited in comparison. Most large packages that transition to web/didn't start there run a regular desktop version and stream portions of the UI/model to a browser that acts like a terminal accessing a mainframe.

[Samuel Derenboim]

@zoomer 

Working with 400 mb files remotely will be a challenge IMHO for especially large projects. Also, if you have a lot of custom record information for Building code requirements, zoning requirements, specifications, details, and FFE / Fixture callouts, using the Object info pallet will be difficult / tedious at best, especially if the project references other VW files. Even with a 15" laptop, my productivity was cut substantially because I didn't have a second monitor. It is nice if youre checking something in a cafe somewhere in Tahiti, but I doubt its a good replacement for a workhorse, even if it is possible to do over webgl, maybe I'm wrong?

Edited September 9, 2020 by Samuel Derenboim

[Francisco J. D. Rogers]

Hello to everyone.

 

I think we are in a revolution times in many areas..... politics, health and now in the Technology Industry.

 

Apple not only says good bye to OpenGL. Is saying Good bye to INTEL and external GPUs as well........ or not. Nobody knows except Apple.

 

In my case, use a Mac since 1988. And when Apple left away 68k architecture to migrate to PowerPC, many worry. When abandoned PowerPC to use INTEL was worst, almost a treason. Now after the long partnership with heat and more heat processors will change to use a RISC Architecture again.

Then. I only feel hope.

Yes. The hope of a good support to all users that are always loyal to the brand not only for follow a brand but a way to work and think.
 

Obviously VectorWorks will run in Silicon processors at last. Obviously Apple or any other will give support to OpenGL like Java. (Java or Flash are not part of macOs any more). But ORACLE and Adobe keep working on maintain its software running on a Mac.

 

Then do not worry. All finally will be adapted to maintain users happy.

 

Regards

Edited September 9, 2020 by Francisco J. D. Rogers

[zoomer]

6 minutes ago, Francisco J. D. Rogers said:

Obviously Apple or any other will give support to OpenGL

 

 

OpenGL is deprecated, also on the PC side.

True Windows Apps use DirectX anyway. Cross platform Apps

will go likely go Vulkan over time as Vulkan has some compatibility

for DirectX shaders now. So a transition doesn't mean complete rework.

 

Nobody beside Apple knows when they throw OpenGL finally out.

Yes, for now it is not only still there, they even still support OpenGL

with their Rosetta2 emulation to support legacy Apps.

Which I find pretty remarkably.

So maybe Apples OpenGL will stay long enough to not hurt too much.

 

For me Apple Silicon SoCs and Developer APIs are really fascinating.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Francisco J. D. Rogers said:

Apple not only says good bye to OpenGL. Is saying Good bye to INTEL and external GPUs as well........ or not.

 

They made it clear that Macs with Apple Silicon will no more support

or use anything else than Apple GPUs and no more (non-Apple ?) eGPUs.

 

 

But there will be coming updated Intel Macs still for the next years.

I may buy an Intel iMac soon.

But not because I need bootcamp Windows or AMD (e)GPUs and such things.

Just because I can't or will not wait for at least another year for an Apple Silicon

equivalent in our 3D/CAD power needs range.

 

[digitalcarbon]

UGH! every year this happens...we spent all of August & September fretting over hardware & software...what to buy, when to upgrade...

Its just going to get worse...I have none of this yearly pain with my cloud based CAD dept...only my VW dept is stressing about hardware/software.

 

Then in October we take the plunge into "Batch Conversion" and then spent November fixing all the issues of upgrading...

 

To be fair...I do not think this is a VW only problem... I'm in communication with a Solid Works power user and he has the same issues...

 

More and more is being asked of cad & collaboration...and we are not going to solve it with the current paradigm.  Take a lesson from history.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_numbers

 

It's not about  'we would need to rebuild vw from scratch...it would take a long time'  it's about running out of road...guys, you are running out of road.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by digitalcarbon

[Matt Overton]

On 9/10/2020 at 5:06 AM, zoomer said:

They made it clear that Macs with Apple Silicon will no more support

or use anything else than Apple GPUs and no more (non-Apple ?) eGPUs.

I believe the slide from WWDC that you reference had a very specific context even then it notes metalAPI will continue to support the same range of GPUs as it does on the Intel based Mac(metal Gpu family mac 2). The only thing Apple have made clear about the  ASi Mac is that it’s coming, looks nothing like the test hardware and that we won’t know what it’s fully capable of until they release a mac with or without particular functions. 
 

mud is clearer than the ASi Mac at this stage. 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Matt Overton

[digitalcarbon]

The feeling I'm getting is this... Way back, computers/software were these tools we used and we kept them in the "garage".  Detached mostly from our lives.

We would replace these tools year to year and be excited about it...it was fun.

 

Now, computers/software ARE THE GROUND that we live on...our whole "house" including the "garage" is resting on this "ground"...These yearly updates from Apple, MS, VW shake the whole house.  Its not fun anymore. 

 

Seriously. I just want to have a Chrome book and a browser to run everything. 

[digitalcarbon]

it was said that 'it would take a lot of time to do a browser cad system'  has anyone in vw sat down and calculated the amount of resources it takes to keep vw running on 2 operating systems? (Windows & Mac)....what could you do with all that freed up resource when it was finally freed up?....also get rid of your building and work remotely...so as to have a lower overhead...

 

also...you might want to team up with CityZenith