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WWDC happened - OpenGL gone

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On 6/11/2018 at 10:55 PM, zoomer said:

You have a Ditch Tool ?

Architects Purge only ...

A ditch can be used for draining so the drainage tool could be considered a ditch tool 😊

 

 

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2 hours ago, zoomer said:

Not sure if this is reassuring or not. The gist I get from this is that the software developer has a greater pressure to get it right before the information goes to the GPU or the end user (us) could be in trouble because the output may not be as expected.

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1 hour ago, Art V said:

A ditch can be used for draining so the drainage tool could be considered a ditch tool 😊

 

Yes, I already found it in VW help 🙂

 

1 hour ago, Art V said:

Not sure if this is reassuring or not. The gist I get from this is that the software developer has a greater pressure to get it right before the information goes to the GPU or the end user (us) could be in trouble because the output may not be as expected.

 

Yes, first happiness may flip soon 🙂

 

 

Interesting is the Apple part of OpenGL 2 to OpenGL 3 switch in core mode only

without legacy mode. So I have to think, like many other CAD/3D Apps, VW may

stuck with OpenGL2 also.

And its conclusions what developers option finally are.

(Still a lot)

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26 minutes ago, zoomer said:

So I have to think, like many other CAD/3D Apps, VW may stuck with OpenGL2 also.

 

I think this is the case, since Vw2018 requires an OpenGL 2.1 compatible video card

(whereas Vw with Vision Pro requires OpenGL 3.0).

 

Edited by rDesign

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Yes, as expected ....

 

 

So imagine how much better our cross platform Apps could have been over the last years

(Bricscad, C4D, Modo, Vectorworks, .... on my side, in alphabetical order)

if only Apple had brought OpenGL3 in compatibility Mode and updated to OpenGL4 now.

Or at least allowed to let GPU vendors provide OpenGL with drivers.

 

Developers could still use important OGL2 3D/CAD features while going low level OGL3-4

to speed up where necessary.

 

I think it's a shame.

And the funny part is that Apple's decision made Windows users suffer too.

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Interesting article. Not sure it is particularly relevant to niche products like VW, but it does look at the decision from Apple's perspective. 

https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/06/28/why-macos-mojave-requires-metal----and-deprecates-opengl

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That article is totally right as it is concentrating on iOS and macOS Games.

And Metal isn't bad in itself.

 

Just that it totally ignores the whole cross platform 3D DCC and scientific

Apps on macOS. Which are a completely different pair of shoes.

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Dear all:

 

Al less in High Serra I tried to add the Dark Mode feature with mySIMBL to tests ( Dr. Dark plugin ). And try to view what happens activating the DarkChocolate Theme to be tested.

 (In Terminal write defaults write -g NSWindowDarkChocolate -bool TRUE to activate or FALSE to deactivate. )

 

With both procedures, VectorWorks 2017 do not work with Dark Mode at all. All Tools windows goes white and can't operate.

About Open GL I think Apple will not suspend its operation because a lot users will not update to Mojave and change to Windows ( very nasty to me ). But I think in 2 or 3 more years Developers including VectorWorks will change to Metal or include OpenGL as a plugin.

 

Then....don't worry. Users have the power to make fix any problem to operate with their software.

 

Regards

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Ouch, erosion starts ....

 

While it is not very convincing that deprecating OpenGL would be the reason

for this announcement - when Alias doesn't run on High Sierra for whatever

reasons anyway, it may be well (mis)used as an excuse for such decisions.

 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/alias-products/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Discontinuation-of-Mac-Support-for-Autodesk-Alias-and-VRED.html

Edited by zoomer

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It's probably more likely that their claim of a small user base (at least relative to Windows) is the real reason anyway. The same happened to AutoCAD in the early to mid 90's, they left the Mac as there were not enough users on that platform to keep development going.


Autodesk is on a path for revenues for those willing to blindly spend the money for rental or for the large corporate clients. If you are not in one of these two categories then they are seemingly not interested in having you as a client.

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On 6/5/2018 at 3:38 PM, Jim Wilson said:

Dark mode i'm all for!

Sadly though, Apple often deprecates things very early, just one more thing we will have to deal with for them. It very likely means that it will increase OS compatibility issues on the Mac side even further in the next few years. I'll talk with engineering on what the plans are for us specifically, but I'll give them a bit since this news is still hot out of the oven.

Any updates on this, as the clock is ticking....

 

Having Vectorworks not updating their software to run off metal 2 could be devastating for Vectorworks. They really needed to have already pressed the button on this and started developing the software, rather than holding out for Apple to possibly grant a reprieve. 

Edited by ptoner

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Do you ever think of the Windows users? They've had to deal with an outdated OpenGL version for years just because Apple wanted to push its own API. I don't want to know what the OpenGL graphics from Vectorworks could look like if Apple hadn't put the brakes on it for years. Maybe the Vectorworks OpenGL graphics would look like this today?

Now the Windows users should also co-finance the adaptation of Vectorworks to Metal? I would rather consider whether Apple is still a reliable hardware supplier. Open standards are not supported, or only implemented incorrectly and not fixed over years (SMB). Then the hardware is hardly upgradeable and the choice for professional customers is very modest at the moment. Suddenly operating system upgrades are discontinued (as happened to PPC), while at the same time making life difficult for software developers by diligently removing "legacy" that would be important for backwards compatibility.  The result is that you can't run old software on new apple-computers and vice versa. Old files must therefore be converted if you want to view them today with questionable results. A nightmare that we fortunately already escaped after the PPC misery.

Edited by herbieherb

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5 hours ago, ptoner said:

Any updates on this, as the clock is ticking....


We will have a solution in place before OpenGL is removed. Fortunately, the removal doesn't happen in Mojave just the warning about the removal, it's planned for a few years down the road.

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On 9/4/2018 at 10:48 PM, herbieherb said:

 I would rather consider whether Apple is still a reliable hardware supplier. 

Just look at the joke the updated Mac Pro is turning into. How does a computer take over two years plus to develop when the hardware is abundantly available? It’s probably the case that’s taking all the time.... Seriously, how does this say to professionals they are listening, considering people are grimly hanging onto the last tower models propped up by aftermarket parts and drivers, or the few brought a flower pot - the one they finally sucked it up and apologised for it being a lemon... even it’s specs were way off beam. It’s further proof that they have little investment in the desktop, despite the claims of how ‘critical’ macOS and the desktop is to them. They are a company propped up by a line of phones with the iMac as an accessory while they desperately look for the next phenomenon....

i’ve got An iMac in the lounge and I love using it and the integration with my iPhone (apart from photos - it sucks, and the rort iCloud is) but I can’t justify the cost of a decent machine in my business with their lack of interest in getting a worthwhile machine and monitor to the market and software deprecation being a major red flag.

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On 9/4/2018 at 5:57 AM, Jim Wilson said:


We will have a solution in place before OpenGL is removed. Fortunately, the removal doesn't happen in Mojave just the warning about the removal, it's planned for a few years down the road.

 

Any insights in your crystal ball about how Metal will perform on machines bought using the current recommendations for VW? I'm assuming the requirements will be similar (and the Mac choices are limited) but it never hurts to ask. Since I will invest in a new machine soon, that machine will likely carry me through the VW Metal transition....

 

Kevin

 

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4 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

Any insights in your crystal ball about how Metal will perform on machines bought using the current recommendations for VW?


This we wont have a good idea of until we can compare them side by side for the first time. However, since we would need to create it from scratch using newer processes that have already shown speed benefits across the board, I would expect nothing other than much better performance even on older hardware compared to how it behaves right now.

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Hello:
Well, all this situation will be clarify next 12th of September. By my side, I will not change because I maintain my old MacBook Pro 17 as my war horse. I love its big screen. And its performance is not tooo slow like the new ones, except VRAM.

 

For other side in the iMac of my office, things will change. Mojave will be there early or late. Then I will review how VectorWorks 2017 work in the Dark.

 

Regards to all

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Just now, Francisco J. D. Rogers said:

For other side in the iMac of my office, things will change. Mojave will be there early or late. Then I will review how VectorWorks 2017 work in the Dark.

 


Vectorworks 2017 had the same problems (if not worse) than 2018 did when this was released:

However, 2017 will no longer be updated, so we (Vectorworks) AND I personally, would advise against upgrading to Mojave at all if you are still using Vectorworks 2017.

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4 minutes ago, Tom Klaber said:

How will this affect Windows users?


Performance increases with whatever we end up switching to. We don't take nearly full advantage of OpenGL as it is right now, starting from the ground up (whatever solution we pick will likely be one that we can code once for then push solutions to mac and windows separately, I hear Vulkan has many APIs for things like this but I'm not clear on the details) would put us in a good spot to support more advanced tech faster.

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1 minute ago, Jim Wilson said:


Performance increases with whatever we end up switching to. We don't take nearly full advantage of OpenGL as it is right now, starting from the ground up (whatever solution we pick will likely be one that we can code once for them push solutions to mac and windows separately, I hear Vulkan has many APIs for things like this but I'm not clear on the details) would put us in a good spot to support more advanced tech faster.

😁

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