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3D Connexion Spacemouse

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I am finding that a real barrier to me getting started with Vectorworks is that my 3D Connexion Spacemouse, that works really well with Sketchup, just doesn't seem to work well enough with VW. There are some long and complicated threads in the past but I can't get to the bottom of whether the Spacemouse really works with Vectorworks. If it does I could really use some help setting it up as it doesn't straightforward. thanks 

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It works brilliantly in Vectorworks but you need to get the hang of it. Also the settings in the system preferences need to be altered. These are what I have. I set the threshold low and the speed at medium. That works for me for much of the time. It is also much more responsive in a perspective mode, Orthoganal can be a bit sluggish for me.

 

5a9052c5cc566_ScreenShot2018-02-23at17_42_21.thumb.png.aa5bdc4ee64d28d905b0f81339826f8f.png

Edited by markdd

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thanks, but I still can't get it to be controllable I'm afraid, The only mode I can get to work predictably is top view / 2D which kind of defeats the object of having a 3D mouse. I have tried lots of different settings, but no joy

 

 

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Are you in Perspective or Orthogonal projection?

 

It works fantastically for me in perspective. But does odd things in orthogonal views.

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What Design Layer Scale do you typically work in?

 

I've noticed the 'speed' seems to vary slightly depending on my layer scale, but I typically only fluctuate in the range of 1:48 to 1:24. I wonder if much larger or smaller scales would require some different settings to make the speed appropriate?

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Just now, Andy Broomell said:

I wonder if much larger or smaller scales would require some different settings to make the speed appropriate?


The scale of the document directly impacts movement speed when using a 3dconnexion device. I've put in a request that it be unlinked from this and have a speed scaling factor as a tool preference.
 

 

9 minutes ago, richardavatar said:

I have tried perspective, but it is still all over the place unfortunately 


What specifically is giving you trouble? Is it not moving in the direction you expect consistently? is it moving too fast in all directions or disproportionately in some directions?

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56 minutes ago, JimW said:

 I've put in a request that it be unlinked from this and have a speed scaling factor as a tool preference.

 

That would be great (and is closer to what a new user might expect to be the case). Thanks Jim!

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HI Andy

It is not about the speed - it is getting a set of mappings that actually moves in the direction I expect it to. This is all so much easier with Sketchup - I am seriously considering giving up with Vectoworks entirely 

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17 hours ago, richardavatar said:

t is not about the speed - it is getting a set of mappings that actually moves in the direction I expect it to.


When you alter the direction mappings specifically for Vectorworks 2017 or 2018 (which version are you using?) in the 3Dcon preferences do the changes not occur in Vectorworks after restarting the application? Are you on Mac or Windows?

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Hi

I am using Mac OS X 10.12.6 with Vectorworks 2018 SP2

As I mentioned above the only mappings that I can get to work reliably are in 2D

I can't get spin, tilt and roll to work in a way that I can control things

 

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Hmm, that sounds odd to me @richardavatar. I too am on a Mac with 10.12.6. Spin and tilt work fine for me, I just had to adjust the speed a bit (Roll was off by default, thank goodness.) Mind you, you do need to be in (or switch to) a flyover view to get the 3D navigation to work. I seem to recall that when in Top/Plan view, using the SpaceMouse just let you move in that 2D view.

 

Are you now running SP3 and the latest version of the 3DC driver? If you’re still having an issue perhaps you could post a screenshot of your Axes settings in the 3DConnexion preference pane.

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Hi

thanks for taking the time to answer this post. Yes I have downloaded SP3 and use the latest driver

So far I have only been able to get 2D top view to work, using these mappings attached. I just need the right mappings for the green axes that do not conflict with these.

 

Why do you prefer roll switched off? I use all of the axes in Sketchup and it all works really well. I wouldn't want to disable any of the axes in VW.

 

I havent' spent much time with VW due to not being able to get the Spacemouse working and being able to do most things in Sketchup. I think you are the first person to say you need to activate the flyover tool for it to work. I was just selecting a perspective view. What happens if you then need to select another tool?

 

Do you use a particular perspective view to navigate successfully?

 

I will try what you suggested activating the flyover tool if I can get the axes mappings for the green axes that will work with those that I know work on the blue axes

 

can't help feeling this is all alot more complicated than it needs to be.

I have actually been in touch with 3D Connexion who say there is a problem with Vectorworks, but that doesnt explain why some people seem to have got the Spacemouse to work

Screen Shot 2018-06-10 at 19.31.32.png

 

I just tried it with my blue mappings and your green with the fly over tool active - this didn't work!

Edited by richardavatar

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There is definitely something with the default settings for the space navigator (the predecessor of the space mouse) in VW2018. Depending on which settings are active some other logical settings become inactive, so there is always something that has to be disabled to make the other things work well. Which is a bit counter intuitive.

 

The windows settings dialog is quite different from the Mac dialog so having a screen capture would not be of much use. Your best bet is to try Mark's settings and adjust from there.

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@richardavatar You are most welcome and thanks for the screenshot. Your settings appear to be different from my settings, so here's what I've got for what it's worth:

 

image.thumb.png.eeaf54f34a60c24ae15eaffc6372689e.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note that these may be the stock settings, but there's a chance that I modified them long ago for my SpaceMouse Wireless, which I have had for a couple of years. I picked up my SpaceMouse Enterprise within the last week and just plugged it in for the first time today. I fired up Vectorworks, made a simply mode to practice with and had no trouble navigating. (I just had to turn down the speed for my liking.) Even my 8 year old son came by and gave the SpaceMouse a try. He had never used it before and has some basic experience with video games. He had no trouble moving all around the model on his first try.

 

My green mappings are as follows and don't seem to conflict with the blue ones at all.

 

image.thumb.png.d409ba8b5adf5031f88ed1d62e1955ba.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interestingly, even though roll appears to be on, I can't actually get the view to roll. I am good with roll not happening because I get enough navigation options as is. Roll would have the potential to have me viewing my model as though I was laying down on my side, and for me that's not how I would want to work. It would likely make me want to go take a nap. 😉

 

About activating the Flyover tool, I should clarify - Activating that exact tool is not a must, but it seems you must at least switch from top/plan view to some 3D view. Simply switching from top/plan to right view works for me, as does switching to right ISO, etc. Switching to a perspective view should work as well. I would say this is a good thing because if I was in top/plan view and was able to bump the navigation knob and then get kicked into a 3D view it would be quite annoying.

 

I don't use any particular perspective view to use the SpaceMouse - Narrow, Normal and Wide all seem to be fine for me. Orthogonal works too, though it is not as fun to use.

 

And for what it's worth, I actually let my old Sketchup Pro license "sunset" last year. I had the option to make it current, but I honestly haven't needed it in years so I couldn't just the added expense and export/import routine with Vectorworks. I do all of my 3D in Vectorworks and, quite frankly, the few times I have run Sketchup lately I have found it somewhat limiting. Once you get this hiccup ironed out, and get more comfortable with doing 3D in Vectorworks, it may be difficult to go back to Sketchup. I have no regrets.

 

 

 

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@richardavatar - you might have already seen this, but there is a Vw YouTube video about 3DConnexion Settings for Mac:

 

Edited by rDesign
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thanks for people's input on this...

So, I have managed to get to the point that the model doesn't fly off the screen uncontrallably, but I have no where near the level of control that I have with Sketchup and I don't think I could stand to work like this. As soon as I go into 3D mode the way that the 2D blue settings worked has changed (speed sensitivity)

I have no idea why roll has to be disabled as this is a key control

Perhaps this is all because VW wasn't really designed as a 3D software originally

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My experience with the Space Navigator has been overwhelmingly positive with these settings. I find that it works beautifully in any perspective view. Orthogonal is fine also, but slightly sluggish. For all my settings I keep the Threshold at 0 and the speed at medium.

The key to it working well for me was to keep the Roll Left/Right disabled.

967918908_ScreenShot2018-06-11at08_33_15.thumb.png.525e318782c02b2aafd99863df46ce80.png

 

Just realised that I wrote virtually the same thing back in February! Its nice to be consistent! (and yes the Space Navigator still works really well) @Andy Broomell's observation about scale is definitely a factor.  I mostly draw in 1:25.

 

 

Edited by markdd

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5 hours ago, richardavatar said:

thanks for people's input on this...

So, I have managed to get to the point that the model doesn't fly off the screen uncontrallably, but I have no where near the level of control that I have with Sketchup

 

I am happy with how my Enterprise works in all Apps out of the box.

 

Beside VW, as developers as well as most users seem to prefer a kind of

walkthrough mode working experience while I want to do my 3D Navigation

to be just exactly the same standard Fly Through Tool or View Rotation

by Mouse works.

Also there seems to be an automatic 3D Mode switching in VW, depending on

perspective vs orthogonal camera mode.

 

So I use VW by having nearly all Axis reversed in driver settings.

Maybe that is similar to the problem you are talking about.

 

So for me it looks like :

 

Screenshot-59.thumb.jpg.3888c333a88380d37c0e4ef99450e86b.jpg

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hi

unfortunately those settings don't seem to work for me. Not having roll is confusing as you really need all axes to navigate easily. 

I've noticed that in 3D mode the model seems to tilt around a point some way from the model itself which makes it even harder to control. Is there a setting that will change this?

 

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@richardavatar - check under Document Settings whether you have "Cropped Perspective" on or off. The SpaceMouse does work in either method, but it's possible that if Cropped Perspective is turned on and you're accidentally zoomed into the crop box, everything will seem to be rotating around a point off screen. So uncheck the "Cropped Perspective" box if it is currently checked and see if that affects anything.

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On 6/11/2018 at 11:42 PM, richardavatar said:

unfortunately those settings don't seem to work for me.

@richardavatarThen, as you suggest later, it sounds you might be using a 3D navigation tool in a different Mode.

 

On 6/11/2018 at 11:42 PM, richardavatar said:

Not having roll is confusing as you really need all axes to navigate easily. 

This one is a personal preference, and somewhat related to the kind of work one does. For me, doing more architectural design work, I haven't wanted or needed Roll so far. I suppose if I was working on industrial design or set design, I would use Roll to get a better perspective on what I was creating.

 

On 6/11/2018 at 11:42 PM, richardavatar said:

I've noticed that in 3D mode the model seems to tilt around a point some way from the model itself which makes it even harder to control. Is there a setting that will change this?

This could very well be.

First, try @Andy Broomell's suggestion and let us know how it goes.

If that doesn't help:

1) What tool are you using when you are in the "3D Mode" you are referring to? I am guessing it's the Flyover Tool, but I'm hoping you can confirm this.

2) Which Mode of the Flyover Tool is enabled in the Mode Bar?

(There is a chance that if your objects are drawn away from "Origin", and your Mode is set to Active Layer Plane Origin Mode, this would cause you to, understandably, rotate around based on a point that is far from your objects.)

 

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for anyone else who looks at this - I discovered that the problem was that the Spacemouse had to be in 'Target Camera Mode' for navigation to work properly. pressing button 1 on the Spacemouse enterprise cycles between modes

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