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digitalcarbon

a case for browser based cad

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this just came to mind...if you were on a big project and was going to do it all 3d bim and you gave everyone a full version of VW FREE (pretend you had tons of cash)...

 

the collaboration would still fall apart because not everyone maintains the latest hardware to run it.

 

nor does everyone have the same skill set at using the free software.

 

there is always some office that is way behind in their hardware and this will slow everyone down.

 

a simple case in point:

 

currently I'm trying to get all team members of a new project to use Skype to smooth out communication (screen sharing to solve issues quickly)

this has taken a week to get 5 out of 10 people up and running with Skype

 

of the 5 that did get Skype....some needed to get microphones...config their settings...others got it but could not figure out how to screen share...some had it but did not realize they needed to keep it running for them to receive messages...

 

it has been a week of basic Skype training 

 

so if this is true with Skype (which IS free and simple to use) then how in the world is collaboration ever going to develop with large software packages?

 

a browser based cad system at least removes or reduces the hardware issue...its still going to be a up hill battle as to training...yikes!

 

  

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A bit unrelated, I've found that some can have some real issues using Skype.

This is a good alternative but requires a monthly fee.

I have used it and it's very good.

https://www.join.me/

 

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On 18/02/2018 at 1:17 PM, digitalcarbon said:

a browser based cad system at least removes or reduces the hardware issue...its still going to be a up hill battle as to training...yikes!

 

It actually reduces a lot of the training too. Just about everybody knows how to use a web browser. And nobody needs to know how to configure/trouble-shoot firewalls, VPNs etc.

 

I've long been in the native-is-best camp, particularly with regard to Mac desktop. But seeing Onshape in action has completely changed my mind on that front.

Edited by Christiaan

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it is now 3 weeks since start and still have not gotten everyone operational on Skype...

 

using Skype for team fly thru

 

just had to talk someone thru an install of dropbox yesterday...

 

the point?...for a team of people to really collaborate then they need to have the same baseline tech and knowledge for a group of people to move as a team.

 

last weeks fly thru was stalled for 20min due to a key play not knowing how to nav Skype  

 

 

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As a mentor of mine once told me, "Running a project is easy. People are a bitch." ;)

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so now everyone is getting it and we now have a critical mass of important people to influence others...

 

need to talk to someone about their mic quality...

 

the point is...this is Skype and Dropbox...could not be simpler 

 

next is Bluebeam Revu...

 

seems like there needs to be a "tech support" for all big jobs...

 

no one wants to spend time navigating a 3d model except for the cad people & and only a few of them

 

no one is going to get thrilled with the 3d space nav...except for (a few) cad people...

 

i seen someone not use the 3d nav after it was given to them so they could take over some of the work i was doing in the Architectural office...the office now does only 2d cad...it is easier in a way

 

someone told me a story of the first time they saw a spread sheet on a computer...some people in the company saw it and knew it was a game changer...others saw the same thing and ignored it.

 

he said  that within a few years they (the ones who did not see the value) no longer worked for the company...

 

Xerox PARC keeps repeating its self

 

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Reminds me of Bill Gates not seeing the internet coming

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interesting how gamers spare no expense at gear but at the office people work with antiquated gear...

(that is not my office but i do have 3 screens)

 

b8bb05ab440a6d1e40a29be7b62423e3.thumb.jpg.09ff03f069c4150b22a91240137603ae.jpg

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seems like offices in themselves are a big money pit...gamers can set up in a spare bedroom and put all cash into gear...

 

seems like a team of people who work for themselves and from home would have the best gear

 

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Posted (edited)

ok, so i am slowly building a team of people who work at home...

offices (the ones you drive your 2nd car to) are a waist of resources

 

A. now i have a person who is training in Ohshape and will help me out with that.

I had them get an Onshape account and they were training in under 60 min...

 

B. now i have a person who i want to help me out with VW...

so the first thing i needed to do was email them the specs on what VW needs...

they have to read that, check their computer and get back to me...

 

a few days...

 

Onshape is the new paradigm and VW is an old paradigm.

 

VW should break in 2 camps...keep VW the way it is for legacy users.

 

but then break out a new cloud based cad solution, new name and everything.

 

what happens is that companies grow to fat and cannot make rapid changes...then a bunch of people from the company leave to form a start up.

 

this is what happened with Solid Works and Shockley Semiconductor when 8 top engineers left to start work on the integrated circuit and made history

 

The_Traitorous_Eight.thumb.jpg.5f63fd6686a41628821c20602fe16b24.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by digitalcarbon

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this new paradigm cad needs to have a gaming feel to it. so people want to "play" it.

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10 hours ago, digitalcarbon said:

VW should break in 2 camps...keep VW the way it is for legacy users.

 

but then break out a new cloud based cad solution, new name and everything.

 

Agreed.

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@digitalcarbon @Christiaan

 

I am pretty sure that VW Management has heard your plea. At this point either they are going down the path you want or they are not. There is probably no way to know until the product is released (or not released). I seriously doubt that further, frequent requests for a totally different program will make any difference in the decision or timing.  How long did the ONShape people work on it in private before they were able to release? My guess would be years, so you have to expect that time frame for a major change by VW also.

 

Personally, I feel that we are losing some of the civility of the board. I feel like many people who don't have enough experience or background are making requests and demands that are not reasonable. Your requests so far are reasonable and polite, but are so far from the current standard that I believe they are changing the tenor of the board.

 

Just my personal opinions, not wearing my moderator hat.

 

If you choose to continue all I can say is good luck Don Quixote.

 

Regards,

Pat

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You should try simlab composer for VR walkthroughs with teams.

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On 03/04/2018 at 5:45 PM, Pat Stanford said:

At this point either they are going down the path you want or they are not.

 

I'd be very surprised if a decision has been made to make a new cloud-based CAD or to never make one.

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I've had a lot of trouble this year trying to deal with some persistent and serious bugs, to the point that I run out of time stay on top of the bug reporting and sending VW files in order for the engineers to try and reproduce the problem (many of which they're unable to, or simply haven't found a solution yet).

 

This process of bug finding, tracking and resolving would be hugely simplified in a cloud-based CAD. Not just for the user but for the CAD vendor as well. Less variables, no files or log files to manage. It's all there in one place for the user and the CAD vendor work on.

 

I could probably go through my time-sheets and put a exact figure on it. It wouldn't be small.

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I know some people who work on extremely large industrial projects and are prohibited from using fusion 360 BECAUSE its cloud based.  They use solidworks instead despite its high cost.  This is due to client prohibitions and concern about the security of keeping proprietary files in a 3rd party cloud environment.

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1 hour ago, B Cox said:

I know some people who work on extremely large industrial projects and are prohibited from using fusion 360 BECAUSE its cloud based.  They use solidworks instead despite its high cost.  This is due to client prohibitions and concern about the security of keeping proprietary files in a 3rd party cloud environment.

 

Anyone in that situation could stick with VW Desktop, on a job-by-job basis.

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20 hours ago, B Cox said:

concern about the security of keeping proprietary files in a 3rd party cloud environment.

 

 

while i understand this...again who has my money?  the bank and its all in the cloud...

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20 hours ago, B Cox said:

extremely large industrial projects and are prohibited

 

ok... do they use Dropbox or similar?

 

if not then where do they keep their backups?  

 

do they store a backups off site?

 

who are managing these backups?  people...

 

people with thumb drives...who can steal the project easy

 

im not saying that things can't go wrong with the cloud approach but we cannot say its less secure then doing things in house...

 

our focus is project based, dead lines, buying toilet paper for the office, etc...then we think about security....

(unless we have a paid security staff)

 

the cloud companies total focus is on security first and formost...

 

its like saying "I feel safer in a car that I build myself" vs buying one from people who make cars all the time.

 

this security issue with the cloud is a paper tiger...

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5 hours ago, digitalcarbon said:

the cloud companies total focus is on security first and formost...

Try asking them to sign a liability agreement where they will accept liability in case (some of) your information gets leaked because of a mistake or misconfiguration on their end.

 

They probably will either reject or not respond.

 

I've done this on several occasions with cloud offers that touted their high security standards and claiming data would be well protected and safe on their cloud and either the request to sign a liability agreement was rejected or I never got a response.

 

With banks the situation is slightly different as they can be held liable for screw-ups and they will have to give you your money anyway (unless they go bankrupt). If a cloud based storage/software provider messes up your data may have fallen in the wrong hands and the chance of getting damages paid is probably quite small.

 

Local storage and backup has its security risks as well, but at least you have more control over it than with a cloud company where you have to rely on their efforts and skills.

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7 minutes ago, Art V said:

sign a liability agreement where they will accept liability

 

do you sign a liability agreement (for your clients) accepting liability for the storage of all their data sitting on your HD in your office?

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16 hours ago, Art V said:

Try asking them to sign a liability agreement where they will accept liability in case (some of) your information gets leaked because of a mistake or misconfiguration on their end. ... If a cloud based storage/software provider messes up your data may have fallen in the wrong hands and the chance of getting damages paid is probably quite small.

 

Isn't that what PI insurance is for?

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22 hours ago, digitalcarbon said:

 

do you sign a liability agreement (for your clients) accepting liability for the storage of all their data sitting on your HD in your office?

If you think you would be immune from litigation if your clients information was stolen regardless of them having you sign a liability agreement, you've got another thing coming.  More likely you would have them sign an indemnity clause.

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My inner Luddite has me distrustful of any Cloud based items, and exercise extremely caution in using anything Cloud based. At the incept of FB, Twitter etc I've evaluated so called social media & rejected it, with the exception of this forum, I have no presence on them. With that in mind I do use Drop Box on a limited bases & also have used the Cloud for some of the Service Select work. So I do see the need and value for some limited cloud based CAD interfaces but I'm convinced that the person/firm who has the overall responsibility should still have to maintain the "parent" file physically on their server or hard drive and act as the gate keeper of all information that is added or subtracted from the parent file.

 

As Levy and Salvadori state in the title of their excellent book; Buildings Fall Down. That being said, there needs to be a way to both prevent this, and identify who, what, when, where, how, & why. If a parent file is on a cloud & as Mr Zuckerberg proved this week, even those supposedly in charge of data can't, or won't ensure the safety and veracity of data means Cloud drawing files would be next to useless in maintaining accountably. 

 

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