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scottmoore

Seriously improved volumetric rendering for entertainment

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11 hours ago, Wesley Burrows said:

As mentioned earlier in the thread,  I am one of those guys that incorporates Cinema 4D for my presentation/volumetric renders.    I agree with the need for this feature "in-house",  but here are a few related thoughts:

 

For me, doing these renders often takes quite a few low-quality test renders to get everything how I want before cranking out a HQ final.   It has been my experience in Vectorworks 2017 and 2018 that, for whatever reason, after handful of these test renders the renderer will stop showing new or changed geometry and will just keep re-rendering whatever the geometry was when it stopped recognizing updates.    You then restart Vectorworks and the problem goes away for another handful of test renders,  rinse, repeat.   I don't know how widespread this problem is,  but I know it's not isolated and restarting Vectorworks every 45 minutes or whatever to "deal" with this gets to be pretty irritating. 

 

Another thing,  there isn't always a real way to cleanly abort any render immediately for whatever reasons you may require.   You have to wait until it allows it,  or worse force quit.   It kinda reminds me of older windows versions where explorer (the host) wasn't really in charge of it's processes,  they more or less controlled it,  versus something like Linux where it is basically always the boss and can kill a process immediately upon asking.

 

My point is, I think there are some overall stability/control issues that need to be addressed to really make the requested features as useful as everyone wants.   I don't intend for this to be a C4D commercial but when you are rendering it's nice to have a platform that simply doesn't crash.    Always updates the geometry in renders,  even after hours of changes.    Can abort any render,  at anytime, for any reason.  

 

Just some thoughts...

 

I certainly agree. The render cache issue you mentioned has been on-going since at least VW2017. Same with cancelling renders though I do seem to find that works pretty consistently now.  

 

I do all of my final renders from SLVPs as well, however, I always end up saving one or two “quick render” views for my design layer. That view is set up to not recall class or layer visibility so it is a really quick way to check anything I am working on from a particular perspective. I usually use Final Quality Renderworks as the keyboard shortcut makes things very quick. Of course now there is the bug where you have to render it twice to get a render.....

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Posted (edited)

Just an update on the processes discussed in this thread:  

 

- Volumetric control has not changed at all which is not overly surprising but certainly disappointing.  

 

- The beam origination issue has not changed in Spotlight lighting devices.  I am not really sure we should expect to see changes there either until there is some entirely new processes put into place.  My solution is using my own lighting fixtures for presentations only.  They are not "legitimate" lighting fixtures and have no records attached.  That said, I find VWX performs really well and does not get bogged down at all when using standard geometry and not a bunch of plug in objects and symbols with records which has improved my overall attitude and sense of well-being whilst working in VWX🙂  But that is just for my in-house usage.  

 

- VWX did seriously step up their game in 2021 with the advent of vastly improved focus options which was part of the wish-list on this particular thread.  My assumption is avoiding focus points as much as possible will improve the overall performance of the platform.  Of course, now that I seldom use Spotlight lighting devices it's not that big a help to me personally, however, someone was indeed listening and I seriously appreciate that.  Hopefully that is a marvelous improvement to others.  

 

- I have messed about with using IES files for lighting renderings and they can be useful to an extent in volumetric renders, however, performance is seriously degraded as there is a lot more detailed information that the CPU has to render.  I find they might be best used for large format wash lights such as multi-cell 4-light, 6-light, 8-light units perhaps? 

 

None of this solves the "inverse square law" (as I jokingly refer to it) where the beam is basically computed as a piece of geometry; the larger it gets, the brighter it gets as there is more of it for lack of a better explanation.  

 

Continue on my friends.  

Edited by scottmoore
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Interesting view of an IES file in volumetrics just for the sake of conversation.  This is one light source with all other ambient light off.  

Screen Shot 2021-03-02 at 12.31.11 PM.png

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Posted (edited)

Its interesting to see that. Something rather lovely about that lone shaft of light. It would be really something if you could load IES files into Spotlight Lighting Devices. Currently not possible but would be a worthwhile improvement.

 

Like you I wish the volumetric rendering times could be improved without having to drastically reduce quality. The newly improved Lighting device doesn't seem to add any more time compared to a light object which is good news. I hope that with the newly improved Spotlight Lighting Device, things will start to move in the right direction when it comes to rendering haze/fog, beam width at source, and lenses.

Edited by markdd

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1 hour ago, scottmoore said:

Just an update on the processes discussed in this thread:  

 

- Volumetric control has not changed at all which is not overly surprising but certainly disappointing.  

 

- The beam origination issue has not changed in Spotlight lighting devices.  I am not really sure we should expect to see changes there either until there is some entirely new processes put into place.  My solution is using my own lighting fixtures for presentations only.  They are not "legitimate" lighting fixtures and have no records attached.  That said, I find VWX performs really well and does not get bogged down at all when using standard geometry and not a bunch of plug in objects and symbols with records which has improved my overall attitude and sense of well-being whilst working in VWX🙂  But that is just for my in-house usage.  

 

- VWX did seriously step up their game in 2021 with the advent of vastly improved focus options which was part of the wish-list on this particular thread.  My assumption is avoiding focus points as much as possible will improve the overall performance of the platform.  Of course, now that I seldom use Spotlight lighting devices it's not that big a help to me personally, however, someone was indeed listening and I seriously appreciate that.  Hopefully that is a marvelous improvement to others.  

 

- I have messed about with using IES files for lighting renderings and they can be useful to an extent in volumetric renders, however, performance is seriously degraded as there is a lot more detailed information that the CPU has to render.  I find they might be best used for large format wash lights such as multi-cell 4-light, 6-light, 8-light units perhaps? 

 

None of this solves the "inverse square law" (as I jokingly refer to it) where the beam is basically computed as a piece of geometry; the larger it gets, the brighter it gets as there is more of it for lack of a better explanation.  

 

Continue on my friends.  

Following with intense interest. 

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markdd "Something rather lovely about that lone shaft of light."  Mies van der Rohe was correct in his assertions.  

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