Why is it so difficult to lay things out in a front view?

[Kevin McAllister]

Why is it so difficult to lay things out in a front view? Examples -

 

1. You can't snap to the internal origin like you can in Top/Plan view.
2. You also can't easily snap to the line that is the ground plane.
3. You can't use proper layout tools like Duplicate Array because they only work in Top/Plan view (there is much more to design than the plan view).

 

I want the same user experience in all true views - Top/Plan, Front, Side etc..

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 

[EAlexander]

+infinity 

[Gerard Jonker]

So true, Kevin!!

[Pat Stanford]

What doesn't work about Duplicate Array in Front?  I just tried and it appeared to work fine after I realized that up the screen was now +Z and I was in 3D instead of the +Y from Top/Plan.

[Kevin McAllister]

8 hours ago, Pat Stanford said:

What doesn't work about Duplicate Array in Front?  I just tried and it appeared to work fine after I realized that up the screen was now +Z and I was in 3D instead of the +Y from Top/Plan.

 

Pat, I would love to be proven wrong, but experience tells me that it just doesn't work as it should in any view other than top plan even if you choose the Working Plane as the reference. I am most often making circular arrays. Here's an example of why its broken. I should be able to lay out the same circular shape facing forward. Instead I always have to lay things out in Top/Plan and then rotate them. This is problematic when I have to go back in and adjust something (eg. re-array).

 

(You can force it to work with Screen Plane objects if you know your centre point.)

 

Kevin

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Kevin McAllister

[mjm]

16 hours ago, EAlexander said:

+infinity 

+1 infinity more

[Andy Broomell]

2 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

Pat, I would love to be proven wrong, but experience tells me that it just doesn't work as it should in any view other than top plan even if you choose the Working Plane as the reference. I am most often making circular arrays. Here's an example of why its broken. I should be able to lay out the same circular shape facing forward. Instead I always have to lay things out in Top/Plan and then rotate them. This is problematic when I have to go back in and adjust something (eg. re-array).

 

I'm with you!

 

I use circular arrays all the time and this bothers me to no end.

[Kevin McAllister]

Ultimately this wish could apply to any working plane. Why can't the experience of working on any working plane be the same (Top/Plan, Top, Front, Side, the sloped surface of an extrude, anything really)? I'd like to be able to Duplicate Arrays and use Drafting Aids like Arc Into Segments or Line Into Segments. I'm sure there are other things I've missed.

 

Kevin

[Pat Stanford]

OK, I see it. Yes I agree.

 

It should work in any view, but at the very least, it should work the same as in Top/Plan if you are "looking at" at working plane.

[AlanW]

Seems that it will only work if you place the centre of your array radius on 0,0 and do it in iso view it will work. Need to be able to select the centre in rotated view.

Also if you start in top plan view to array then tick select centre and then rotate you can select the centre and it works. Programmers must have missed this bit.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Alan Woodwell

[Kevin McAllister]

Here's another image that shows what I would expect to get if I did a circular array in a front view, just so its clear. I should be able to lay out a clock face in its proper orientation, not on its back.

KM

 

[Art V]

The "funny" (but not really) thing is that if you create the 2d shape and do the duplicate array first and then extrude the shape it works. If you extrude first and then try the duplicate array then you get what Kevin is showing.

This array functionality can and should definitely be improved to make it work properly with 3D shapes.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Art V

[Gerard Jonker]

7 hours ago, Art V said:

The "funny" (but not really) thing is that if you create the 2d shape and do the duplicate array first and then extrude the shape it works. If you extrude first and then try the duplicate array then you get what Kevin is showing.

Only with a Screen plane object. If it is "Screen aligned" you still can't check Next Mouse Click.

[Kevin McAllister]

10 hours ago, Gerard Jonker said:

Only with a Screen plane object. If it is "Screen aligned" you still can't check Next Mouse Click.

That's the frustration and the irony of the whole Screen Plane/Layer Plane thing. I've been fully 3d for years but Screen Plane objects, which NV is progressively making harder to use especially within container objects, are essential for any layout work because of these tool limitations.

 

Kevin

 

[Art V]

59 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

That's the frustration and the irony of the whole Screen Plane/Layer Plane thing. I've been fully 3d for years but Screen Plane objects, which NV is progressively making harder to use especially within container objects, are essential for any layout work because of these tool limitations.

 

Kevin

 

I agree it should work in layer plane as well, because for me it is better usable in general than screen plane except for some relatively minor things, though this duplicate polar array issue is not really minor if you use it a lot in 3D.

[Bruce Kieffer]

On 1/31/2018 at 6:30 PM, Kevin McAllister said:

Why is it so difficult to lay things out in a front view? Examples -

 

1. You can't snap to the internal origin like you can in Top/Plan view.
2. You also can't easily snap to the line that is the ground plane.
3. You can't use proper layout tools like Duplicate Array because they only work in Top/Plan view (there is much more to design than the plan view).

 

I want the same user experience in all true views - Top/Plan, Front, Side etc..

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 

Kevin,

This has been a wish of mine forever. I think the reason for the problems is because the only 2D view in VW is Top/Plan, the others are 3D, even though on the screen they appear 2D. Because of this, grid alignment and snapping can be a mess in the non-top/plan views. I wish I could work in the front, side top, left, and bottom views as though they were 2D since that is how I see them on my screen. I wish layer plane/screen plane was eliminated. I want to define an object as 3D or 2D and that is it. I want to position it in 3D space where I want it, and that becomes visible when I view the drawing in 3D. Done!

[grant_PD]

Oh yes please.  All the "arrange" tools are fraught with issues unless in top/plan view.  We need to be able to set a working plan and have all functionality translate to that plane.  

[Tom Klaber]

On 1/31/2018 at 7:30 PM, Kevin McAllister said:

Why is it so difficult to lay things out in a front view? Examples -

 

1. You can't snap to the internal origin like you can in Top/Plan view.
2. You also can't easily snap to the line that is the ground plane.
3. You can't use proper layout tools like Duplicate Array because they only work in Top/Plan view (there is much more to design than the plan view).

 

I want the same user experience in all true views - Top/Plan, Front, Side etc..

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 

 

Again - this is a symptom of the Top/Plan View workaround.  Down with Top/Plan - bing on true plan cuts.

[scottmoore]

Totally agree.