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taavilooke

Principles for modelling wall finishing layers

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Hi!

 

I find it difficult to model finishing layers (components) for wall. Sometimes the finishing layers are up to a few cm thick and should be modelled for accuracy. However when the same wall construction can have different finishes, it can get complicated really fast. If I model the finishes as separate walls, I have to duplicate all the openings in the walls as well and keep then in sync when I change the wall itself. If I put the finishing as a component into the wall type, I will end up with many duplicates for the same wall style (wall type without any finishes, with plaster on one side, with plaster on two sides etc.).

 

Are there any good principles to get around this problem? Is there another way that I'm not seeing?

 

Regards,

Taavi

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You could leave the finish with a link to the overall class so you'd see a class for each type of finish while still having only one wall style?

Vectorworks 2018ScreenSnapz024.jpg

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On 1/5/2018 at 5:01 PM, Gerard Jonker said:

You could leave the finish with a link to the overall class so you'd see a class for each type of finish while still having only one wall style?

 

Could you explain that a bit more in detail? Do you mean I should assign the wall to a different class based on the finishes?

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Modeling Multi Component Walls as separate Walls is quite seductive as it allows

the modeling control you wish for.

But doing so is no viable option in VW as you already experienced.

 

In VW you should use Multicomponent Wall Styles and work with single Wall Objects.

Of course, if you have nearly the same Wall but different surface finishes like Plaster,

Tiles; .... for each Room, you would need an impractical amount of similar Walls Styles.

 

So the advice would be to avoid showing these in the 3D Model like using a smaller scale's

LOD, maybe try to combine similar finishes as a kind of generic finish or try to pack that

information into Room Infos.

I am not familiar with worksheets so I don't really know what works best to get the area

number out for different finishes.

 

If the details and LOD are very important, you may want to really model everything by

Custom 3D Solid Geometry as @digitalcarbonshowed in several smaller residential

project examples in his videos.

 

 

Generally a good way to create Wall Styles is to set the overall Wall on a "PIO"-Class

like 0_Walls, and each Component to "Material" Classes like M_Concrete_fine, which you

can reuse for other Styles or PIOs.

And control everything by Class.

Which gives a lot of control vor visibility and edit-ability.

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Do the wall component classes help with the wall finishes in any way? Or is it just a general tip? We were assigning components to classes earlier, but in some cases it seemed to mess up the IFC export and we had to forgo that. That was on 2017, so it might be fixed now, I have to check.

 

This is annoying, in Revit-land there are some much more appropriate tools for defining finishes.

 

 

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It is a general tip.

But it helps to e.g. separate your components.

Like having visible all PIO Classes but only the Concrete Material Class

may let you check if all Wall/Slab Joins are good and such things.

 

It may be necessary to divide into PIO specific Classes like

Wall_Structural_Concrete + Slab_Structural_Concrete if needed.

But if possible I like to keep things a simple as possible and it maybe likely

the same cast in place concrete anyway. So I prefer Systems with a

System wide Building Material Information System, which you can choose

when you create your Components.

 

I also need Classes for Material assignments for Visualization.

For me everything assigned by Classes makes life simpler and easier.

Do you set all line thicknesses and such by component ?

 

I am not sure about the IFC exports as I am still fighting with geometries.

What were your IFC problems ?

Mine are all Multi Component Walls coming into Bricscad as Blocks.

May these be solved by setting all Components to Wall Class ?

Edited by zoomer

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The issue was that in some cases if components are assigned to classes, VW will only export some components of the wall to IFC and others go missing completely. Also when combined with offset wall component heights, the class (IFC layer) of the PIO object is replaced with the class of the first component. I attached the test file that I made, that has 4 walls (with and without component classes, combined with component height offset). I submitted it to Vectorworks through VSS, but as usual I haven't gotten a response about that.

 

In general exporting walls to IFC worked okay, as long as you don't use component classes or wall caps. Wall features and component offsets mostly worked, but needed jumping through some hoops.

seinte_komponendid.vwx

Screen Shot 2018-01-10 at 10.51.52.png

Screen Shot 2018-01-10 at 10.52.32.png

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Are there any Components having no Fill (by Class ?) ?

Why can I see through your first Component, when it is not offset, in HL view ?

 

I think I need to look more closely if there may missing some things for me too.

So far I always used PIO by Components and Components by Class

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On 1/5/2018 at 1:41 PM, taavilooke said:

Hi!

 

I find it difficult to model finishing layers (components) for wall. Sometimes the finishing layers are up to a few cm thick and should be modelled for accuracy. However when the same wall construction can have different finishes, it can get complicated really fast. If I model the finishes as separate walls, I have to duplicate all the openings in the walls as well and keep then in sync when I change the wall itself. If I put the finishing as a component into the wall type, I will end up with many duplicates for the same wall style (wall type without any finishes, with plaster on one side, with plaster on two sides etc.).

 

Are there any good principles to get around this problem? Is there another way that I'm not seeing?

 

Regards,

Taavi

If there's another way, I don't see it either.

 

I think the least hassle way is just to have many different wall styles.

 

 

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