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Jim Smith

Screen Refresh / Lag time in 2018

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I have reloaded VW 2018 once to fix other issues but I'm still finding an annoying issue with objects not refreshing without having to change my point of view. For example if  one uses the eyedropper, to change an object's attributes the changes aren't visible unless I change my view from Top/Plan to Right Iso then back. This odd behaviour is illustrated below with a simple rotation in a blank document below. A rectangle has been rotated 45º and the "ghost" shape of the rotated shape may be seen in the screen grab.  The second screen grab is after the View has been changed from Top / Plan to Left Iso then back to Top / Plan. I was planning on using some down time over the holidays to re-establish my custom Workspace but I don't want to have to cut this grass a second time if I have to re-install my software. I've never had this issue before and 2017 works more or less flawlessly. So my questions are:

1) Is this behaviour common or is this a settings issues?

2) Can this be corrected?

3) Is this an OS issue between VW 2018 & OSX 10.13.2?

4) Is my 2 yr old MacBook not up to the hardware challenge of VW 2018?

Screen Shot 2017-12-27 at 10.53.45 AM.png5a43c5805aa9a_ScreenShot2017-12-27at10_53.45AM(2).thumb.png.ec05d241c4c09b0263f2ec3da14433fc.png

Edited by Jim Smith

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Jim, this is not an answer to your question, but I am very interested in experiences with VW2018 which I have paid for but not yet installed because I am afraid of the type of problem you are experiencing!

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Pete,

I'm impressed with most of the programme's improvements, Muliti View, & improved open GL are very good for example. I do find this lag in screen refresh to be a pain in the poutine. As I say, I reinstalled the software to clear-up an issue that had to do with using a migrated Workspace. I've delayed customizing my workspace incase that I have to reinstall a second time. As my Workspace has been customized to my liking over time, this will take a couple of hours, but holding off on this updated until know how to fix this issue makes me not nearly as efficient as I was in 2017. That & having to "teach" VW to spell with each iteration of the software, means that I have to teach VW 2018 to spell not just Canadian English terms but many other building  terms ( soffit for example) a second time. This time waster shouldn't have to be redone with each iteration. Not having a dictionary that can migrate from one iteration to the next is frankly dopey. 

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I received an answer to my Bug Report from Joseph in tech support (THANKS!). It seems that the issue is with my two year old MacBook Pro's graphic card is below spec. There is a fix by going to Tools>Options>Vectorworks Preferences>Display and changing the Navigation Graphics to “Best Compatibility”. This has made my issue go away!

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I've had this same problem on a 2017 iMac. Some days Vectorworks is unusable, with huge portions of the screen flickering on and off and I scroll and pan around a drawing. Setting the display preferences to "Best Compatibility" helps, but does not solve the problem. I'm running modern hardware and Vectorworks is a mess. I'll try to record a video and submit to tech support, but I frankly don't have time to troubleshoot basic functionality. Didn't the graphics pipeline just get completely revamped? Why is this a problem?

 

5a4c1848616e1_ScreenShot2018-01-02at6_39_45PM.thumb.png.b74d779dfe594b84bdb4ccae54294c14.png

 

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17 hours ago, ThreeDot said:

I've had this same problem on a 2017 iMac. Some days Vectorworks is unusable, with huge portions of the screen flickering on and off and I scroll and pan around a drawing. Setting the display preferences to "Best Compatibility" helps, but does not solve the problem. I'm running modern hardware and Vectorworks is a mess. I'll try to record a video and submit to tech support, but I frankly don't have time to troubleshoot basic functionality. Didn't the graphics pipeline just get completely revamped? Why is this a problem?

 

 

 

I just opined on the "Top Plan Sluggish " tread that's full of similar quotes that:

" I think (sadly) that Apple has let down professional designers by focusing on becoming a consumer goods company & forgotten those of us who have spent tens of thousands of dollars over the years. I was told over the holidays that I could swap my Graphics card but the mother board would have to be replaced to do so, so why not just trade in for a new machine that's only marginally more advanced? JimmE isn't happy & I've been Mac Guy since well before the Scully debacle. "

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While it would seem fair enough to blame slightly below-spec hardware for sluggish performance on large files viewed in 3d, I find it a bit surprising that it's the reason a simple rectangle can't be rotated in plan view without issues.

 

Somehow, if a single rectangle can't be rotated in 2d on a 2 year old machine, it points to some kind of design failure on the software rather than hardware side, but perhaps that is a naiive conclusion?

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That's not naïve! I am running a top end 2017 iMac and Vectorworks frequently has trouble displaying 2D objects in plan view. Geometry will constantly blank out during simple pan and zoom operations. I submitted a video to tech support last week (see attached). This was such an obvious problem when I started running VW2018 that I assumed it would be reported and corrected with SP1. That didn't happen with SP1, or SP2, so I finally submitted a help request last week.

 

I can say that all other software (Cinema4D, SketchUp, Illustrator, Pixelmator, Sketch, etc.) runs perfectly fast and smooth on this computer. In fact, all software runs perfectly fine on my old 2013 iMac. Vectorworks is the only application that runs so poorly. It's leagues worse than anything else and it's embarrassingly bad.

 

Screen Redraw Problem (2018-01-05).mov

 

Edited by ThreeDot
Correct typo and grammer

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4 hours ago, ThreeDot said:

That's not naïve! I am running a top-end 2017 iMac and Vectorworks constantly has trouble displaying 2D objects in plan view. Geometry will constantly blank out during simple pan and zoom operations. I submitted a video to tech support last week (see attached). This was such an obvious problem when I started running VW2018 that I assumed it would be reported and corrected with SP1. That didn't happen with SP1, or SP2, so I finally submitted a help request last week.

 

I can say that all other software (Cinema4D, SketchUp, Illustrator, Pixelmator, Sketch, etc.) runs perfectly fast and smooth on this computer. In fact, all software runs perfectly fine on my old 2013 iMac. Vectorworks is the only application that runs so poorly. It's leagues worse than anything else and it's embarrassingly bad.

 

Screen Redraw Problem (2018-01-05).mov

 

Looking at your video - that is quite similar to the behaviour I see on my machine

 

(described in this parallel thread:

 

 

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I am having the same issues. I have a 30 mb file that runs fine when I save it down to VW2017, but in VW2018 it is a nightmare to navigate! Zooming in and out of a simple elevation takes about 3 seconds or any time I zoom or pan. Drawing a single new line anywhere in model space and VW2018 redraws every single line on the screen taking another several seconds and wasting processor power on redrawing, which is very inefficient. Zooming in and out, drawing one line, going back to sheet view, should not take an entire minute! Drafting is like pulling teeth in 2018. My service pack is up to date. Please fix! I will save down and use VW2017 until the program is made usable. 

 

Screen Shot 2018-04-16 at 5.09.10 PM.png

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I am still having this problem of lagging intermittedly. Especially when moving wall objects and selecting them.

 

Anybody else with the same problem????

 

I have gone through a round of support but it did not reslove anything... logging info sent off... no answer. Hmm

I am considering re-installing my 2014 version....

 

I have aW530 lenovo 16bg quaddro k2000m workhorse and only on 2018 encountered anything that would doubdt its power. I am sorry it might be 5 years old, but this computer should not struggle with an updated cad program.... it must be the soft ware? Or am i missing something obvious here? I should mentio i have just re-installe downdows 10 from scratch and vectorworks was the first thing i installed.... Very frustrating. can't work like this!

 

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It is VW2018, since VW2017 the graphics engine got updated and when I save back to VW2017 the issue also exists but not in VW2016 where it is virtually instantaneous to select and move things compared to VW2018. Even though my system should be just fine for the kind of work where I experience this the issue is there.

 

The issue is worse with drawings started in versions before VW2017/VW2018, and yes it is very frustrating. The issue is such that I'm hesitant to upgrade to a new system in the hope it may solve the issue but given the fact that people with more recent high end systems are experiencing it too I'm going to wait until it seems to be really fixed.

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18 hours ago, Cris Dopher said:

Pretty much ALWAYS the solution!  Haha.

 

@Art V, have you tried reducing the graphics preferences to "good compatiblity"?

Yes, initially it was on best performance after it was installed and with new drawings started in V2018 it was not an issue (unlike V2017). When the lag issue showed up I checked the settings and set it to good performance and compatibility. This made no noticeable difference. Even setting it to best compatibility makes no difference. The lag still remains.

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18 hours ago, Cris Dopher said:

Pretty much ALWAYS the solution!  Haha.

 

@Art V, have you tried reducing the graphics preferences to "good compatiblity"?

 

2 minutes ago, Art V said:

Yes, initially it was on best performance after it was installed and with new drawings started in V2018 it was not an issue (unlike V2017). When the lag issue showed up I checked the settings and set it to good performance and compatibility. This made no noticeable difference. Even setting it to best compatibility makes no difference. The lag still remains.


A lot of the problems we see recently that could be easily swept under the title of this thread are VGM related and fixed by swapping the settings, however we have started nailing down more specific and unrelated-to-VGM causes such as VB-149277, in which we see documents getting progressively laggier and laggier after updating Section Viewports. It doesn't matter what is IN these sections usually, even simplistic ones updated regularly seem to increase the lag and unresponsiveness until application restart.

This isn't to imply that this section issue is related to ALL other posters, just that there are MANY underlying causes to this type of symptom and it unfortunately isn't a single bug.

I'll keep adding specific bug items and info here as I find them.

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18 hours ago, Cris Dopher said:

Pretty much ALWAYS the solution!  Haha.

 

@Art V, have you tried reducing the graphics preferences to "good compatiblity"?

 

Have to say, every time over the years it's been suggested to me that changes those preferences settings might solve an issue, it hasn't made any difference.

 

Mine are set to "best performance".

 

Just tried changing to each of the other two options, and there was no improvement. In fact the "best compatibility" option made it worse.

Edited by line-weight

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27 minutes ago, JimW said:

A lot of the problems we see recently that could be easily swept under the title of this thread are VGM related and fixed by swapping the settings, however we have started nailing down more specific and unrelated-to-VGM causes such as VB-149277, in which we see documents getting progressively laggier and laggier after updating Section Viewports. It doesn't matter what is IN these sections usually, even simplistic ones updated regularly seem to increase the lag and unresponsiveness until application restart.

^ There's some irony in this. In another thread it was suggested that making section viewports was a good way to work around a current issue with Hidden Line not rendering correctly in orthographic (front, side etc.) viewports. Sigh....

KM

 

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The screen refresh problem that I posted earlier in this thread has improved, perhaps because I switched graphics settings or perhaps because of updates to Vectorworks and macOS. I've also found quick workarounds to make geometry reappear and, quite frankly, I've become used to the lag.

 

The lag that I am currently experiencing—that I am currently annoyed by—has to do with project sharing. If I move an object in a shared drawing without checking out the object first, Vectorworks seems to say "Okay, let's see. User want to move a line. Does anyone have it checked out? Bueller, Bueller? No? Okay. User, you may move the line." This takes two, maybe three seconds per operation. It's really slow, but to a certain extent I understand why. Vectorworks does need to check if any other users are working with the same geometry. However, if I check out the entire layer before I begin editing, then I expect that the question "Is anyone else working with this geometry?" has already been answered and I should be able to work at native speed. Nope! Moving that line is not as slow as I described above, but it is very slow compared to a non-shared file.

 

Is anyone else experiencing this problem, or did I set up my shared file incorrectly?

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