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How do you make top roof component overhang the fascia?


Christiaan

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37 minutes ago, Christiaan said:

two separate controls

 

Yes, I think it would be good if you could have handles for the roof process. WYSIWYG is and always has been my preferred option if available.

 

Too much of VW seems to end up with changing something in an OIP and seeing what change/outcome that gave you. (OK - Perhaps I should read the manual)

 

Unfortunately (and not wanting to be too discourteous) there sometimes seems a disconnect between the boffins and the end users as to what we really want, day to day, in our own 'commercial bubbles'.

 

Some of that is reflected in the way VW has developed into a 'tool for everyone'. Jack of all trades.............?

 

Still beats ACAD though!!

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Hmm, something I hadn't noticed until I tried to merge the upper part of my roof (tiles and tile battens) into one Roof Style with the rest of roof (insulation, truss, etc), is that offsetting the edge by Roof Axis Line offsets both the eaves and the ridge!

 

So it looks to me like there's no avoiding having multiple Roof Styles into order to overhang my roof tiles at the eaves.

 

Maybe we should simply be asking for a eaves-only offset setting...

 

5a29276e0165a_ScreenShot2017-12-07at11_34_46.thumb.png.cc4bda68871ce92ef9b759e051957afb.png

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On 07/12/2017 at 11:37 AM, Christiaan said:

offsets both the eaves and the ridge!

 

I think we've discovered the 'stair tool' of the pitched roof. Seriously - this seems to be another VW tool that's a Jack of all.....Master of..... - well you fill in your own description here.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, 

 

On 04/12/2017 at 1:59 PM, Gadzooks said:

Too much of VW seems to end up with changing something in an OIP and seeing what change/outcome that gave you

 

This isn't a very user-friendly way of creating and supporting software. Although I can see it keeps VW 'experts' in pocket change.

 

Trying to avoid a major rant..lets move on to the problem in hand......

 

---------------------------------

 

Thanks for your test file Christiaan (send via PM.)

 

You're right, this isn't 'behaving' (as we expected from some considerable time 'invested' earlier)

 

Looking at the simple roof surface you've provided, the first thing I see different from our earlier examples is you've chosen to have Eave Cut as Double.

 

5a2bfc99e8337_ScreenShot2017-12-09at15_05_24.thumb.png.bb90c71e9491da2f8ca772811bb8b7ff.png

 

If you change to Vertical, the top component is 'fixed' (well, its now as you expected to see - both gable and edge condition).

 

5a2bfca6513d6_ScreenShot2017-12-09at15_05_49.thumb.png.95da6200a8ed60145eb1fea940130dc9.png

 

Conclusion: This is a BUG or WAD.

 

Frankly, if a VW boffin wants to stick their head above the parapet and declare WAD then I'm a (***************), as its not WA (my) D.

 

This is the challenge then VW - what's the (corporate) response?. And please don't come back with "yes, theres bugs (we thought you'd not notice if we kept silent)"

 

 

 

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Ah yes, brilliant, well spotted! I want a double eave setting + the eave only overhanging. I'll add this to my bug report. I'll eat my hat if this is WAD.

 

I added this comment to my bug report:

 

Quote

Here's another undesirable behaviour spotted by Gadzooks on the forum:

 

1. Let's say I want to have a Double Eaves Cut instead of a Vertical cut.
2. If I take the roof at step 7 in the attached test file and change the Eaves Cut to Double
3. Then set the Vertical dimension of the cut to, say, 45 mm
4. You'll see that the top component now overhangs not just the eaves, but the sides and ridge as well.

 

This is unwanted behaviour. I want the sides and ridge to remain where they were when I use a Double Eaves Cut setting.

 

 

Edited by Christiaan
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Afternoon Guys. This is such a long post I'm not convinced I am answering a question or adding to it.! Basically using the create roof tool you can have 2 (or more layers) and as pointed out you can apply a thin tile layer on top to stick out form the eaves. I got quite excited about this (saving lots of time) until I realised if you ungroup the roof the "+tile protrusion" sticks out on all sides (see below). I understand why it would do this in principle., and reported it as a bug(or at least ask for a work-around) via Vectorworks UK about 6 months ago fyi . Not heard anything back yet.... :- ( 

roof.JPG

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On 11/12/2017 at 5:54 PM, David S said:

via Vectorworks UK about 6 months ago fyi . Not heard anything back yet....

 

Well, poor show from VW UK. Thought the new 'regime' was supposed to help create/nurture/extend a better level of support and inclusivity to the 'family' that is VW in the UK.

 

Feeling included David?

 

Welome to this thread David, as you have pointed out, this is already a long haul.

 

Thanks for letting us know the details  - It seems your query followed the same path and resulted in similar frustration - first when you had to try and work-around what seemed to be a BUG and second, when you received nothing back from VW UK.

 

As I said to @Alan Woodwell, you need to bring sandwiches for this one. @Christiaanwill be round shortly with some cake. 

 

And we have other traffic in the queue - stairs, windows..........................................................

 

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10 minutes ago, Gadzooks said:

 

Well, poor show from VW UK. Thought the new 'regime' was supposed to help create/nurture/extend a better level of support and inclusivity to the 'family' that is VW in the UK.

 

Feeling

10 minutes ago, Gadzooks said:

 

Well, poor show from VW UK. Thought the new 'regime' was supposed to help create/nurture/extend a better level of support and inclusivity to the 'family' that is VW in the UK.

 

Feeling included David?

 

Welome to this thread David, as you have pointed out, this is already a long haul.

 

Thanks for letting us know the details  - It seems your query followed the same path and resulted in similar frustration - first when you had to try and work-around what seemed to be a BUG and second, when you received nothing back from VW UK.

 

As I said to @Alan Woodwell, you need to bring sandwiches for this one. @Christiaanwill be round shortly with some cake. 

 

And we have other traffic in the queue - stairs, windows..........................................................

 

10 minutes ago, Gadzooks said:

 

Well, poor show from VW UK. Thought the new 'regime' was supposed to help create/nurture/extend a better level of support and inclusivity to the 'family' that is VW in the UK.

 

Feeling included David?

 

Welome to this thread David, as you have pointed out, this is already a long haul.

 

Thanks for letting us know the details  - It seems your query followed the same path and resulted in similar frustration - first when you had to try and work-around what seemed to be a BUG and second, when you received nothing back from VW UK.

 

As I said to @Alan Woodwell, you need to bring sandwiches for this one. @Christiaanwill be round shortly with some cake. 

 

And we have other traffic in the queue - stairs, windows..........................................................

 

10 minutes ago, Gadzooks said:

 

Well, poor show from VW UK. Thought the new 'regime' was supposed to help create/nurture/extend a better level of support and inclusivity to the 'family' that is VW in the UK.

 

Feeling included David?

 

Welome to this thread David, as you have pointed out, this is already a long haul.

 

Thanks for letting us know the details  - It seems your query followed the same path and resulted in similar frustration - first when you had to try and work-around what seemed to be a BUG and second, when you received nothing back from VW UK.

 

As I said to @Alan Woodwell, you need to bring sandwiches for this one. @Christiaanwill be round shortly with some cake. 

 

And we have other traffic in the queue - stairs, windows..........................................................

 

David?

 

Welome to this thread David, as you have pointed out, this is already a long haul.

 

Thanks for letting us know the details  - It seems your query followed the same path and resulted in similar frustration - first when you had to try and work-around what seemed to be a BUG and second, when you received nothing back from VW UK.

 

As I said to @Alan Woodwell, you need to bring sandwiches for this one. @Christiaanwill be round shortly with some cake. 

 

And we have other traffic in the queue - stairs, windows..........................................................

How do di reply?

11 minutes ago, Gadzooks said:

 

Well, poor show from VW UK. Thought the new 'regime' was supposed to help create/nurture/extend a better level of support and inclusivity to the 'family' that is VW in the UK.

 

Feeling included David?

 

Welome to this thread David, as you have pointed out, this is already a long haul.

 

Thanks for letting us know the details  - It seems your query followed the same path and resulted in similar frustration - first when you had to try and work-around what seemed to be a BUG and second, when you received nothing back from VW UK.

 

As I said to @Alan Woodwell, you need to bring sandwiches for this one. @Christiaanwill be round shortly with some cake. 

 

And we have other traffic in the queue - stairs, windows..........................................................

 

10 minutes ago, Gadzooks said:

 

Afternoon Guys. This is such a long post I'm not convinced I am answering a question or adding to it.! Basically using the create roof tool you can have 2 (or more layers) and as pointed out you can apply a thin tile layer on top to stick out form the eaves. I got quite excited about this (saving lots of time) until I realised if you ungroup the roof the "+tile protrusion" sticks out on all sides (see below). I understand why it would do this in principle., and reported it as a bug(or at least ask for a work-around) via Vectorworks UK about 6 months ago fyi . Not heard anything back yet.... :- ( 

 

 

 

@Gadzooks Is this how I reply? I accept (I think) we use the tool to the very limits of its capability and we are pushing the barriers all the time. I know all about the stairs the roof tool etc, the many odd bugs. You'd need a phd in mechanical engineering to make the stair tool functional! What I'm also frustrated also about is that we are now using live viewports and attempting to adopt our (complex) working drawings into the process using the various components - in principle which should appear correctly in the viewports in plan and elevation - but they don't. This would save us a great deal of time, but we have had to abandon this development because it doesn't work.  I don't mind being a pioneer but can't run a business in the hope of something functioning properly at some time in the future! 

 

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3 hours ago, David S said:

Is this how I reply?

 

Well - not quite, but I think you finally got out of the 'quote bag' you were trapped inO.o.

 

3 hours ago, David S said:

should appear correctly in the viewports in plan and elevation - but they don't.

and..

3 hours ago, David S said:

we have had to abandon this development because it doesn't work

It looks from your reply that you are almost giving up on VW. Don't let the operational quirks put you off - they're irritating to the 'n' agree sometimes, but ACAD will 'amaze' you as well.

3 hours ago, David S said:

I don't mind being a pioneer but can't run a business in the hope of something functioning properly at some time in the future!

Negatively

Nor should you.

This isn't 'give it a try' ware we bought into. For the licence we deserve better product. (Ahh..... takes you back to Microsoft doesn't it)

 

Positively - If you need help with stuff and (probably more importantly) if you can take the time (ok, have the time!!) to explain whats not working as you would want, and you maybe have a test file (usually a bonus) you can post, someone will be bound to help from the forum.

 

Try it out.......we're all learning off each other.B|

 

-------------

Edit - Sorry, meant to point out , as you appear to be on 2016, maybe some of the 'fixes' you need are in 2017, 2018 - worth looking to see if the release notes say this (or you could ask VW UK!!)

Edited by Gadzooks
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@Gadzooks Thanks for this! No SS customer on 2018 now. I have got a lot of great help support from the forum. Stuff I had no idea about!  All the stuff I want to work is largely covered by the issues reported to VW already by us and other VW users. It's interesting. I think over 75% of UK Architects still do everything in 2d (crazy!) so I think only a relatively small % of users (and that includes other designers etc who benefit from 3d Renderworks etc. I think @Christiaan touched on a few pain points here: I'd love to get to the stage where all our work including working details were in 3d and could be updated but VW are not there yet. And I've no idea when that will happen? All hail the simple stair tool! (Black Humour!)

  

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Hi.  Reading through this.  But I cannot get my roof right.  Cannot extend or retract components of the roof as suggested in the first part of the initial post. 

 

I cannot extend manipulate offset on any of the components that make up my bloody roof.   Really frustrating.  

I do not want to see the 150mm timber structure line on the external faces, only the top slate component.  How in the bloody hell do you do this?  I thought I could put a minus number for the offset.  

 

So far I Right click the roof >edit the roof style > and the offset does absolutely nothing...Why?  

Screen Shot 2021-04-26 at 14.35.37.png

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Hi Tom Thank you for your response. 


I've attached pictures of the menus once in the roof style.  Just to note this roof build up isn't finalised; testing to see if I can make this work. 

 

I'm not seeing any effect of changing the offsets. 

Screen Shot 2021-04-26 at 17.56.27.png

Screen Shot 2021-04-26 at 17.56.10.png

Screen Shot 2021-04-26 at 17.55.41.png

Screen Shot 2021-04-26 at 17.54.59.png

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Thanks @MGilc it's something to do with your roofs being Roof Faces as opposed to Roofs. There has been quite a lot of talk on this forum about the shortcomings of Roof Faces. In a file of mine I tried converting a gabled Roof object to a pair of Roof Faces. My Roof had offsets applied to the components on the eaves + on the gables. These offsets were maintained when the Roof was Ungrouped + converted into a pair of Roof Faces BUT as soon as I edited one of the offsets they were all lost on the gables: the components maintained their offsets on the eaves but the roof was completely flush at the gables + there was no going back: no way to edit the edge condition on the gables.

 

In your model, if I change the Eave Cut from Vertical to something else the offsets in the style are applied to the eaves. Then I can change it back to Vertical + the offsets are maintained. But like in my file there seems no way to apply offsets to a gable of a Roof Face.

 

Can you make your roofs as Roofs rather than Roof Faces, then you will have control over the offsets on the gables?

 

Not a very satisfactory state of affairs I know but like I say there is quite a lot of dissatisfaction with Roof Faces (+ Roofs too for that matter) but we're told it's on the radar for improvement. At least your roofs don't need to be Roof Faces as far as I can see?

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I see yes.  But it's that lack of manipulation that pulls me away from using Roof objects.   The roof will undoubtedly change, which would mean constructing an entirely new one instead of manipulating the existing.  It is an area with glaring shortcomings.  Oh well.  Thanks though. 

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Unfortunately the edge conditions apply to the Roof as a whole. You cannot apply separate conditions at the gables (if that's what you're asking). But you can adjust the eave overhang for the gables separately (by clicking on blue selection handle for individual gables to open 'Edit Roof Settings' dialog box) so you should be able to get the gables looking the way you want that way.

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@MGilcthis might be not accurate to your situation as I dont have time to read all the posts but I thought I share my experience.

If you have gable roof and want to offset individual components from all edges then I would definitely go for slab with drainage settings applied. It might sound scary at first but it really works.

Here is example of two slabs forming gable roof, one with big openning to accomodate staircase.

119% = 45 degree slope

 

Snímka obrazovky 2021-04-28 o 13.49.18.png

Snímka obrazovky 2021-04-28 o 13.50.57.png

Snímka obrazovky 2021-04-28 o 13.53.13.png

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