Braceworks Cross Section info From Manufacturers

[Wesley Burrows]

For manufacturers that wouldn't (or just haven't) provided the truss cross-section information to be included in the Vectorworks truss library.  (Ugh)  What is the right information to ask for from them, on an individual request basis?   I think I remember it primarily being the lxx, lyy, and lzz.  But I can't remember the exact terminology.    Or should I just send the screen shot and ask them to be so kind as to provide the asked info?

 

Edited to add:  Tomcat responded to me and they aren't providing that information at this time,   but their engineers have a meeting with Vectorworks after LDI.   Fingers crossed :-)

 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Wesley Burrows

[Rob Books]

we request from them, Moments of Inertia, Bending Moments, Shearing Force, and Tube Force.

and Yes, hopefully we will Get Tomcat and J. Thomas onboard after the meetings at LDI.  

for some that are missing Data, the Manufacturer is working with us, just taking them time to get the data to us and then converted to the cross-section in Vectorworks.  the nice thing is that I was able to set most of them up with an ID so that once the Cross Section is in, it will auto correct and we won't have to re-issue libraries.

[Wesley Burrows]

1 minute ago, Rob Books said:

we request from them, Moments of Inertia, Bending Moments, Shearing Force, and Tube Force.

and Yes, hopefully we will Get Tomcat and J. Thomas onboard after the meetings at LDI.  

for some that are missing Data, the Manufacturer is working with us, just taking them time to get the data to us and then converted to the cross-section in Vectorworks.  the nice thing is that I was able to set most of them up with an ID so that once the Cross Section is in, it will auto correct and we won't have to re-issue libraries.

 

For those those of us that also have some quantities of slightly less mainstream manufacturers.  (Applied Electronics in my case)  Where they aren't in the library at all,  what would be the appropriate method to try and obtain that info?

[Rob Books]

See if the manufacturer will give it to you.  we often get their structural test results.  NOT the Load rating chart, those are mostly useless for Braceworks calculations.  Then you can either calculate the  Inertias and fill them in and/or send me a copy and I can forward on to have it in the program so it is available to everyone.  If you look at that list in the dropdown, there are some that are very specific to certain regions of the EU, and we may not bring on board.  but we can keep them in there for folks who do have the truss geometry.

[CETLV]

Has there been any updates on this?  I am still searching for accurate cross section info. on a multitude of manufacturers.

[Rob Books]

24 minutes ago, CETLV said:

Has there been any updates on this?  I am still searching for accurate cross section info. on a multitude of manufacturers.

 

What manufacturers are you looking for? 

 

Tomacat and J. Thomas are still not giving us the data we need to create the cross sections.  if you are using them, let them know that you are Vectorworks Braceworks User and really wish they would give us the needed information.  the more squeaky wheels they hear from, the more pressure they have from their customers to help us out with the data.

 

We have several new manufacturers and updates to existing manufacturers coming out in the new year for our Service Select Customers before they become available in the program libraries.  We have Christie Lites and Tyler Truss coming out as new product lines, and an update to the GLP Cosmic/Global truss will be coming.  We are also in the process of getting more truss companies on board not only for Vectorworks, but also for Braceworks as the word gets out there that you, the users, are wanting their truss in the software.

[CETLV]

Well, its hard to say.  I design for different manufacturers all the time depending on who the house rents from.  One of the most common ones I have seen lately is XSF.  Its just sort of a bummer that braceworks is essentially useless with its math unless you get very specific data.  I am also curious about the chain cross sections in the hoists.  rigid seems like itll work just fine, however not all chain has the same details.  but i mean if a chain fails before other components, you failed math in first grade.

 

I am indeed a SS guy, so I will keep a lookout.

Edited December 11, 2017 by CETLV

[Rob Books]

XFS has reached out to us about being in Vectorworks, but have not heard back from them recently.  I will ping them again to see where they are in the data collection front.

Of course, even once we get the geometry and data, there is only Justin and I to do the work, so have to schedule it into our work list. but we try to crank the content out as efficiently as possible with maintaining our standards for content.

 

Rob.

[Wesley Burrows]

Seems pretty short-sighted on Tomcat and J Thomas' part.      Seems akin to some curmudgeons in a boardroom circa-1995 harping on about how the internet is a fad.  

Edited December 13, 2017 by Wesley Burrows

[Rob Books]

17 hours ago, Wesley Burrows said:

Seems pretty short-sighted on Tomcat and J Thomas' part.      Seems akin to some curmudgeons in a boardroom circa-1995 harping on about how the internet is a fad.  

 

I think part of it is their fear of Lawsuits, after all, Sue is a verb here in the US.  But I think they are starting to realize thanks to the users that they need to have this information in our software to maintain competition.

[CETLV]

Perhaps they believe that people are going to rely on the software and despite any "disclaimer" they are not going to get out the calculator and do the actual math!

[scottmoore]

1 hour ago, CETLV said:

Perhaps they believe that people are going to rely on the software and despite any "disclaimer" they are not going to get out the calculator and do the actual math!

And to further that, I might assume that any company forwarding that information, regardless of it’s accuracy, is opening itself to liability concerns from a legal standpoint. 

[CETLV]

3 minutes ago, scottmoore said:

And to further that, I might assume that any company forwarding that information, regardless of it’s accuracy, is opening itself to liability concerns from a legal standpoint. 

well, now that I think more about it, that info IS the info they would have to stand behind in a lawsuit anyways, so they should be confident in their numbers, but there is a lot to be desired for a customer using the wrong model cross section, for light duty vs heavy duty models.  If they use the heavy duty numbers, and get the OK in Braceworks, then actually rig light duty and it fails, then thats what they are likely thinking.  However someone who is serious enough about rigging knowledge to pay 5 grand for a license you would hope wouldnt be so negligent... 

[Wesley Burrows]

2 minutes ago, scottmoore said:

And to further that, I might assume that any company forwarding that information, regardless of it’s accuracy, is opening itself to liability concerns from a legal standpoint. 

 

 

I mean,  CM motors have a liability disclaimer on them about not for use for lifting loads above peoples heads.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Enoch Seutter]

Speaking of Christie Lites coming on board, I have noticed the link bars on B-Type 16" truss don't work properly when connecting them. It only acts as a short extension and doesn't change the angle of the truss connection. Picture attached : Top is what BW and Insert Truss Tool does, bottom is what it should actually do.

 

At this point the link bars appear to be useless.

 

Enoch

[SCParker]

Enoch,

Timing is everything. I have been playing with the link bars as well. I made a tiny L-corner that matches the 7.5° link bar. I've not had time to make the rest. File is attached.

LinkBar.vwx

[Enoch Seutter]

Awesome thanks Scott! I have been messing around with the 22.5 degree link bar myself. When making a full circle I can't get it to match up 100%, eventually I will get the L1/L2/L3 just right that it will work.

[CETLV]

just as long as you guys realize that these custom bars that are being made are NOT accurate in the braceworks calculations.  unless you have the exact cross section data you cannot reliably use anything generated from braceworks.

[Enoch Seutter]

Yes, I am aware of that CETLV.

[SCParker]

58 minutes ago, Enoch Seutter said:

Awesome thanks Scott! I have been messing around with the 22.5 degree link bar myself. When making a full circle I can't get it to match up 100%, eventually I will get the L1/L2/L3 just right that it will work.

Enoch,

I discovered that changing the drawing units to Microns was very helpful. Change back after you've built the L corner.

[Projx_CA]

Are the Christie Lites truss symbols supposed to have Cross Section data? 

 

They appear to be set as RIGID

 

[SCParker]

Same here. I meant to comment that the link bars missing that info didn't really matter since they're all set to rigid.

[Rob Books]

The way that Braceworks gets the data for the cross sections is it reads a file in Vectorworks.  All truss that has been released, including the Tomcat/Thomas, once we have the data and put it into the program, and that service pack update is released, will then populate with the non-rigid data automatically.  

[Projx_CA]

On 3/13/2018 at 6:18 AM, Rob Books said:

The way that Braceworks gets the data for the cross sections is it reads a file in Vectorworks.  All truss that has been released, including the Tomcat/Thomas, once we have the data and put it into the program, and that service pack update is released, will then populate with the non-rigid data automatically.  

 

Rob,

 

Does the cross section file need to be updated separately, or is it part of the service pack?  The Christie truss still registers as rigid, even after the SP3 update. 

 

Thanks!

[Rob Books]

Christie didn't get us the data in time for SP3, it should be in SP4, whenever that comes out.  SP3 finished up the missing Global cross sections, and the Prolyte that we were missing.  It is part of the service pack, so you don't need to do anything.

 

Rob.