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Tom Klaber

Surface Studio - Price aside - is it powerful enough to run VW well?

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I do not like who I am becoming.  I have chided Apple fanboys for years about overpaying for hardware because of nice ID...now I am considering doing it in the extreme with the Microsoft Studio.  I really love the form factor - but worry that it is underpowered.  For sure it is underpowered considering it is 4K - but that aside - is it capable of providing a smooth VW experience?

 

Anybody using one?

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Not using one, but your post made me look it up out of curiousity :)

TechRadar has a recent review (mid October): http://www.techradar.com/reviews/surface-studio and they reviewd the maxed out configuration costing 4,200 USD

 

Part of their verdict: " If you’re just looking for an all-in-one PC for your everyday computing or office work, you’ll be much better served by an iMac, Dell XPS 17 AIO or HP Envy 27 AIO. Videographers and photographers would arguably be better served by a similar system with higher-end specs, a dedicated desktop or building their own PC (or two) for the price of a standard Surface Studio. "

 

The clock speed is 2.7 GHz of the currently most powerful i7 provided with the Surface Studio, which is sort of almost halfway laptop and desktop processor speeds, though closer to laptop than desktop.

The rest of the specs should not be an issue, depending on whether you want a single, dual or more than two multiple monitor setup as it seems to handle only one external monitor.

 

So all in all this would for me be sufficient reason that if you do not need the tablet drawing style part of the Surface Studio to just get a very well specced desktop.  There is apparently a newer version on the horizon with the latest model range of Intel processors so I would rather wait for that one before making a final decision.

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It is indeed a very nice device.

 

But power/Spec wise it is a Laptop .

VW will run.

It makes sense if one has no problems to replace such a AiO after very few years

or has another non 3D standard need for it later like Office/Family PC.

 

I expect Surface Studio to be replaced/upgraded soon*.

(* Soon may mean another Year)

As beside Laptop Specs it also lacks current IO ports like USB-C and such things.

If I had a PC and they would offer a Display only Mode - it would be a no brainer for me.

 

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:D

 

One other thing,

if you compare the Surface Studio with a Mac AIO, called iMac Pro,

it has USB-C/TB.

(Apple lacks a bit of Touch features for political reasons of course)

So if your GPU power may be to weak at one day, you can adda eGPU.

You can order a very decent CPU (18 core Xeon) if money is no issue

and you may even add some RAM

(You may need the largest iFixit Tool Kit + their double sided tabes and

such or repair shop money, but at least it is not soldered)

 

So such a device can last for some years.

 

And I would expect such options for a Surface device at that price range too.

And I think that will come at one day. So I would wait.

Edited by zoomer

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2 hours ago, Markvl said:

Didn't you get a new laptop earlier this year @Tom Klaber?  And a very high end one I might add?

Yes.

We are looking to grow!

 

I am really trying to imagine what a paperless (almost paperless) office would need I have a tablet with a pen to make up and review drawings - but I am finding myself now printing them out because it is just too small to do a good review on a 12" screen. Then  I was in a mall and sat down in front of the studio - pressed it down - and it felt amazing - like I really could sketch live - and really review a full set on screen.  It really was a whole new PC experience.  I was not prepared for how novel it felt. 

 

We are looking to grow! My potential new partner and I were talking about a hardware strategy for the firm and he also brought up the Surface Studio.  I made the claim that I did not even if we could justify the cost - it simply would not run our models on VW well enough - but then I realized I had no idea what I was talking about so I thought I would shoot it to the crowd.

 

 

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2 hours ago, zoomer said:

:D

 

One other thing,

if you compare the Surface Studio with a Mac AIO, called iMac Pro,

it has USB-C/TB.

(Apple lacks a bit of Touch features for political reasons of course)

So if your GPU power may be to weak at one day, you can adda eGPU.

You can order a very decent CPU (18 core Xeon) if money is no issue

and you may even add some RAM

(You may need the largest iFixit Tool Kit + their double sided tabes and

such or repair shop money, but at least it is not soldered)

 

So such a device can last for some years.

 

And I would expect such options for a Surface device at that price range too.

And I think that will come at one day. So I would wait.

 

The intriguing thing about the Surface is not that its pretty - but it has the ability to fold down into a drawing board.  So there is no doubt that there is more value in the upcoming iMac Pro -and no doubt there is more value in a dell xps tower than an iMac Pro - the missing thing - the transformative thing - is that screen.  

 

Really what I want is a Surface Studio Windows Ink compatible monitor that I can hook up to whatever computer I want.  

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Exactly.

Currently you could do the same by a workstation and a Wacom Cintiq,

like I do. But these don’t have the style or quality you are used from Mac

or MS. But they are quite reliable and stable.

 

I, on the Apple side, still hope for a Touch Monitor from Apple.

As their iOS Pro Pen things work very Apple like well.

Edited by zoomer

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ooh - they are nice...
I now see why the Surface Studio is so expensive  -  the 27" touch screen is where a bulk of the cost is.  

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But don’t buy that legacy thing like I did,

Wait some month for their 24 and 30 inch.

Because of price and many Other things ...

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You mentioned 12 inch.

Doyou already have a surface laptop or similar ?

 

Is it suitable for CAD clicking ?

Wacom are optimized for painting.

CAD clicking is a nightmare.

 

But I will not give up drawing directly on my screen though.

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4 minutes ago, zoomer said:

You mentioned 12 inch.

Doyou already have a surface laptop or similar ?

 

Is it suitable for CAD clicking ?

Wacom are optimized for painting.

CAD clicking is a nightmare.

 

But I will not give up drawing directly on my screen though.

Similar - I have the HP Spectre x2.  I do not use it for VW.  Strictly for markup, review, and travel companion.  My laptop only has about 90 min battery life and is too big to use on planes - so I use the tablet to try and get some work done when I am traveling - but also find I do most of my redlining on it too.  Powerful enough for Photoshop and some of my other production - but did not even attempt VW.

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3 minutes ago, EAlexander said:

Tom - why not look at a Cintique or this thing from Dell:

 

http://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/cty/pdp/spd/dell-canvas-kv2718d/s001pdc27us

 

And then attach it to whatever hardware you want.

 

e.

I was looking at that.  Can that be used as a primary display?  The surface is so great because you can use it as a traditional all-in-one for doing my VW modeling -but then it slips down into drawing board mode when I need it.  Every time I have ever seen the canvas it is always shown as this secondary input device in front of a primary display.  


Do you know if it can do double duty as the primary display and also input - essentially rig it as a DYI surface?  If so - that is the answer.

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1 minute ago, Tom Klaber said:

I was looking at that.  Can that be used as a primary display?  The surface is so great because you can use it as a traditional all-in-one for doing my VW modeling -but then it slips down into drawing board mode when I need it.  Every time I have ever seen the canvas it is always shown as this secondary input device in front of a primary display.  


Do you know if it can do double duty as the primary display and also input - essentially rig it as a DYI surface?  If so - that is the answer.

Honestly, not sure.  I saw a lot of fuss over this when it launched, but as of yet, haven't seen on in the wild.  Just remembered it as an alternative option that was cheaper, and not all in one with a low grade GPU.

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32 minutes ago, Tom Klaber said:

I was looking at that.  Can that be used as a primary display?  The surface is so great because you can use it as a traditional all-in-one for doing my VW modeling -but then it slips down into drawing board mode when I need it.  Every time I have ever seen the canvas it is always shown as this secondary input device in front of a primary display.  


Do you know if it can do double duty as the primary display and also input - essentially rig it as a DYI surface?  If so - that is the answer.

The manuals can be found here: http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/04/product-support/product/dell-canvas-kv2718d/manuals

 

Based on the user guide in that section it seems it can be used as a primary display with touch/pen input. However if you are using it on a VESA stand and then want to position it into horizontal plane for using pen input you may have some trouble getting it stable. It seems the Surface Studio's base will also function as a base for the flat position of the screen and provide the needed stability.

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The Canvas is in fact a 27 inch Cintiq.

But much better in many ways. If you are on Windows,

But I heard it will run with Wacom drivers even on Macs.

 

I use my Wacom as the only Monitor as my additional Cinema display just disturbed.

I would do the same with a Canvas, although they recommend it as an input device

beside a High Res Monitor only.

Edited by zoomer

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Canvas doesn't look perfect, but the Surface pro is just way too underpowered for the price and 3d work: though I want one for photoshop and post production work. 

Edited by EAlexander

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The coming 24 inch Wacom will be at similar price range as the Canvas

but 4k. also no paralax problem s like the old 27 Cintiq has.

Edited by zoomer

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On 11/3/2017 at 4:20 PM, zoomer said:

I, on the Apple side, still hope for a Touch Monitor from Apple.

 

You better watch it!  I asked for this on a Mac users forum and was strongly criticized for even suggesting such a thing.  Essentially, if Apple doesn't have it, then Apple should never have it because it's not a product which should exist.  

 

But, what I found is that MacOS doesn't even support touchscreens.  As in, you cannot go buy a touchscreen and plug it into your iMac or MacBook and use it.  Amazing.  EDIT: I should add that I mean standard, off-the-shelf touchscreens.  

Edited by SamIWas

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11 hours ago, SamIWas said:

I asked for this on a Mac users forum and was strongly criticized for even suggesting such a thing.

 

:D

 

Yes, there isn't any macOS tablet mode at all. And they say touch is iOS.

But they always pronounced that there is no meaning of touch on a "vertical" Monitor.

(Like an iMac) So far I agree with them.

 

11 hours ago, SamIWas said:

As in, you cannot go buy a touchscreen and plug it into your iMac or MacBook and use it.

 

I have no problem using my Mac Pro with my Wacom Cintiq Pen/Touch Display.

And, yes, it is oriented horizontally, flat on my desk.

(BTW, I see most 2D Artists preferring to work on it nearly vertically anyway)

 

I see no real reason why you should not also be able to open a Macbook Pro by 180°

and use Pen and Touch input like on a Surface device.

Apple may not allow this nevertheless any time.

But why at all talk about a "Pro" Monitor. It is clear that the LG offer is embarrassing and

that most people would prefer to cluster their desks with something that has style and

build quality made by Apple. So they should have said, btw, we listened, we will again deliver

an Apple Monitor for you soon.

So a "Pro" Monitor has to be something special, not just an iMac without guts.

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