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Sebastiaan

Replace symbol is very slow

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Hi,

 

I just started my first project in 2018. Besides the fact that there are still redraw issues (grrr, slightly better than in 2017 so i can live with it now), there is one issue that is costing me a lot of time.

 

If i click replace symbol from the OIP it takes 15 seconds to open the "Choose a Symbol" window, and another 15 seconds to open the nested resource browser. 

 

I am working on a late 2015 15" Macbook Pro and have SP1 2018 installed.

 

Can this be listed as a bug?

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Hi Sebastian,

you are not the first one that bites into the desktop while waiting the symbols to appear.... ;)

look at this thread

 

I wonder if this will be again one of these things that the VW developers sit out, hoping for the day that clients which use this function will die off...

Edited by halfcouple
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Reading that thread it is suggested that turning of all libraries exceptthe current document solves the issue. In my case it does not. I had already tried this. 

 

Also I went back to 2017 to check and the replace symbol window pops up instantly there. 

 

JimW can you list this as a bug? 

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Many people reported strange lags with with Symbols or Styles changes, often in Resource Manager.

 

Someone mentioned that it is related to objects migrated from previous VW versions.

Had no chance so far to try with clean blank VW 2017 file and objects.

But at least my Style, Symbols or Geometry,

all migrated from VW 2017 so far, has abnormal lags when opening from RM, at least when

opening for the first time.

And, my Columns, non styled but a saved Plugin Symbol, as there was no column style pre 2018, 

need abnormally long when I edit my new style (from scratch) applied.

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On 10/30/2017 at 6:39 AM, Sebastiaan said:

JimW can you list this as a bug? 

I am unable to replicate this here in a quick test, could you send me a file this happens in? However, it may also be related to the libraries you've added to the resource manager. I've installed all the default content but don't have any custom content in there at the moment so I might need to fake some resources in order to get the slowdown reproduced.

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On 10/31/2017 at 2:28 PM, JimW said:

I am unable to replicate this here in a quick test, could you send me a file this happens in? However, it may also be related to the libraries you've added to the resource manager. I've installed all the default content but don't have any custom content in there at the moment so I might need to fake some resources in order to get the slowdown reproduced.

Hi Jim,

 

I just send you an example of a new file from my .sta with just 1 symbol in it. Replace symbol takes 30 seconds in it. 

 

Thank you for looking in to this!

 

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On 31-10-2017 at 2:28 PM, JimW said:

I am unable to replicate this here in a quick test, could you send me a file this happens in? However, it may also be related to the libraries you've added to the resource manager. I've installed all the default content but don't have any custom content in there at the moment so I might need to fake some resources in order to get the slowdown reproduced.

 

Hi Jim, did you find time to look in to this? I had to switch back to 2017 because of this problem. 

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11 minutes ago, Sebastiaan said:

 

Hi Jim, did you find time to look in to this? I had to switch back to 2017 because of this problem. 

I was unable to replicate it even with a buffed up object library. I have passed it on to see if it can be tracked down, but I wasn't able to replicate it myself.

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54 minutes ago, JimW said:

I was unable to replicate it even with a buffed up object library. I have passed it on to see if it can be tracked down, but I wasn't able to replicate it myself.

That’s odd. Maybe I should try a reinstall as well. 

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23 hours ago, JimW said:

I was unable to replicate it even with a buffed up object library. I have passed it on to see if it can be tracked down, but I wasn't able to replicate it myself.

Hi Jim,

 

I did some testing. I Reinstalled VW 2018 without migrating my old favorite files. Replace symbol take 1 second to open the replace symbol dialog, and another to open the nested resource browser. Just a bit slower than in vw 2017 where it feels instant. I tried this both in SP0 And in SP1.

 

Then I migrate my old favorite files and replace symbol becomes slow again. There are about 24 files in my favorites folder and they range from 133 bytes to 835 MB.

So some of them are quite large. However VW 2017 was able to open the replace symbol dialog instantly and 2018 it takes 15 seconds for the first window and 15 seconds for the next to open.

 

@JimWcan I send you my favorite files in a dropbox link or so so you can so some testing? This problem is making VW 2018 useless for me at te moment so I hope that this can be looked into.

 

 

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On 11/4/2017 at 11:09 AM, Sebastiaan said:

Hi Jim,

 

I did some testing. I Reinstalled VW 2018 without migrating my old favorite files. Replace symbol take 1 second to open the replace symbol dialog, and another to open the nested resource browser. Just a bit slower than in vw 2017 where it feels instant. I tried this both in SP0 And in SP1.

 

Then I migrate my old favorite files and replace symbol becomes slow again. There are about 24 files in my favorites folder and they range from 133 bytes to 835 MB.

So some of them are quite large. However VW 2017 was able to open the replace symbol dialog instantly and 2018 it takes 15 seconds for the first window and 15 seconds for the next to open.

 

@JimWcan I send you my favorite files in a dropbox link or so so you can so some testing? This problem is making VW 2018 useless for me at te moment so I hope that this can be looked into.

 

 


Send this along to tech@vectorworks.net and they can take a closer look.

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Engineering recommends for the time being, keeping your libraries in your User or Workgroup folder rather than elsewhere and linked in as favorites to speed things up. They are working on a fix to make this unnecessary, but this is their suggested workaround for the time being.

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On 12/18/2017 at 2:33 PM, JimW said:

Engineering recommends for the time being, keeping your libraries in your User or Workgroup folder rather than elsewhere and linked in as favorites to speed things up. They are working on a fix to make this unnecessary, but this is their suggested workaround for the time being.

 

I received the same tip from Support. And yes it works the recource browser now appears in one second.

 

However, i can not acces the files in the workgroup folder when I use the replace symbol from the OIP. Opened files, Vectorworks & online Libraries can be explored but not the workgroup folder. 

 

I didn't really miss the feature in 2017. So this is a good workaround for me now.

 

@JimWwhat do you mean by "and linked in as favorites"? can some kind of a link be created between Workgroup folde an Favorites?

 

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On 12/19/2017 at 2:33 AM, JimW said:

Engineering recommends for the time being, keeping your libraries in your User or Workgroup folder rather than elsewhere and linked in as favorites to speed things up. They are working on a fix to make this unnecessary, but this is their suggested workaround for the time being.

 

Hey @JimW, I'm looking for clarification about this comment, similar to @Sebastiaan above: 

 

I was of the impression that accessing files saved in the User Folder would have a slight speed advantage over accessing any [local] file saved as a 'Favorite' - given that large or too many Favorites files slows Vectorworks down. Is this not correct? 

 

I'm currently troubleshooting for a user who has their Favorites loaded on their LAN server and is experiencing major [unspecified] slowdowns that get worse the longer a file is open. They're also having saving issues. I suspected their server or network, or the age of his symbols for the speed problems, but after reading this thread am thinking I'm going to have to include Vectorworks (2018 SP2) as a possible cause. (No SP3 for our market yet). His files are also worked on off the server. I'm going to prescribe he see if working with local C: drive copies makes the difference or maybe using Dropbox instead so staff all have access to the same copy of the resource file/s, but establishing the above first would be helpful. 

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10 hours ago, Jeremy Best said:

I was of the impression that accessing files saved in the User Folder would have a slight speed advantage over accessing any [local] file saved as a 'Favorite' - given that large or too many Favorites files slows Vectorworks down. Is this not correct? 


By default, your user folder is a local folder, so yes this would have a speed advantage over a user folder or set of favorites stored on a network location. However, its also possible to move your entire user folder to a network location, which could possibly slow things down even more.

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11 hours ago, JimW said:


By default, your user folder is a local folder, so yes this would have a speed advantage over a user folder or set of favorites stored on a network location. However, its also possible to move your entire user folder to a network location, which could possibly slow things down even more.

Thanks Jim. Sorry, I see I wasn't explicit enough. I wanted to ascertain:

 

Given that there's discussion that having 'many' or 'large' Favourites files slows Vectorworks performance, I wanted to clarify if there was any performance difference between: 

  • Vectorworks accessing resources in a Favorites file that is locally stored [somewhere on the internal HD]. 
  • Vectorworks accessing resources in a User Folder file that is locally stored [in the standard AppData directory location]. 

Do you know? Is there any knowledge/indication around? 

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11 hours ago, Jeremy Best said:
  • Vectorworks accessing resources in a Favorites file that is locally stored [somewhere on the internal HD]. 
  • Vectorworks accessing resources in a User Folder file that is locally stored [in the standard AppData directory location]. 

Do you know? Is there any knowledge/indication around? 


To clarify, when youre saying the file is being stored in the User folder, it is still then being added as a Favorite in the Resource Manager, correct? The only difference to the first option being the location of where the file being marked as a favorite is stored, but both stored locally?

 

In that case, there would be no difference, no.

If you mean that in the first instance, the "Favorite" file isnt actually being added as a Resource Manager item, but just being opened manually to retrieve it's contents, it may work faster and not delay load times as much as the other workflow at the cost of more clicks.

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On 3/29/2018 at 1:39 AM, JimW said:

In that case, there would be no difference, no.

 

I'm just trying to understand the mechanism behind why having lots of Favourites files (locally stored) slows Vectorworks down, and whether or not files saved in the User Folder Libraries perform better. - If they do, I will prescribe people use the User Folder Libraries instead. 

 

Would having lots of files in the User Folder Libraries have the same effect? 

Maybe this supposed condition isn't even true. Perhaps this assertion refers only to Vectorworks boot times? 

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7 hours ago, Jeremy Best said:

Maybe this supposed condition isn't even true. Perhaps this assertion refers only to Vectorworks boot times? 

Correct, it is load/boot/startup times that are delayed with a large list of favorite files in the resource manager, however most of the testing done to see if this slowdown ocurred was prior to the use of indexing by the Resource Manager which replaced the Resource Browser. This particular type of slowdown happened mainly in relation to the amount of favorites added, not where they were stored.

 

Storing anything on a network location will always slow things down since it increases the number of steps and lag time between all actions, but there shouldn't be a difference between two local storage locations, even if one was the user folder.

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