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Joshec

Faceted Facade

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I did something similar in the past.

As far as I remember I ended up cutting a rectangle a few times, converting these to

3D Polys and grouped it into a mesh for manipulations.

 

Today I would maybe prefer the new SubD Tool with hard edges.

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I think I would approach it by drawing a flattened elevation it (essentially a grouping of triangles) first. I think this would be easier than starting in 3d. Once you have that, you could convert to 3d polys and a mesh to manipulate the points forward. Unfortunately moving things into 3d in VW in this way is not its strong suit so I would probably move it into Rhino, do the manipulations and move it back. I've built a fair number of things like your reference in the past, all manually.

 

Its probably possible with the Subdivision tool as well, but I don't have enough experience with it to explain how.

 

Kevin

 

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After doing some playing with the Subdivision tool and a couple of other methods, including building an example in Rhino, my vote is to use something other than VW. The Subdivision tool works with 4 sided polygons and there's no way that I can see to build a surface from triangular shapes. Using my method of creating a front elevation of triangles allows the creation of a flat surface of triangles quickly but lofting them into 3d isn't very friendly in VW because you need to move the points of each triangle independently. If you use this method I would recommend placing 3d loci as guides for depth. You can convert things to a "mesh" but the VW "mesh" is really only a container to hold groups of individual surfaces. There are no tools in VW to push/pull points on the mesh. When I moved into another program it was quick and easy to build a similar shape.

 

I would love to see someone prove me wrong.

 

Kevin

 

59dbbff1d8dd0_ScreenShot2017-10-09at11_27_15AM.png.eb27647d37c076214627dd4e7bc613b5.png

Triangle Wall Example.vwx

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3D Loci - nice !

 

So I would recommend to play with your Loci positions and just create a Site Model from them :D

(Triangulation guaranteed)

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Now, I know we all know I'm not trying to push Subdivision here (I'd be pushing Marionette if anything ;) which I might once I get some time to mock something up), but I just wanted to show that you CAN do this with subdivision.

 

I started with a rectangle primitive, split it into 32 rectangles (4x8) and added edges between corners to create triangles. I then moved some points in the Z direction and creased all faces. (Probably not ALL faces, because I can still see some imperfection, but you get the idea)

 

If Kevin had creased his edges in his trial, you can get a lot closer to what you want than you would think. it's a bit of work, but here's a quick one I did. I'll attach the file as well.

 

You can also later convert the subdivision to a mesh, if you wanted.

 

The attached file has my original subdiv object as well as the object converted to mesh, then simplified with the new Simplify Mesh command.

 

 

subdv.PNG

subdv.vwx

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14 minutes ago, Marissa Farrell said:

Now, I know we all know I'm not trying to push Subdivision here (I'd be pushing Marionette if anything ;) which I might once I get some time to mock something up), but I just wanted to show that you CAN do this with subdivision.

 

I started with a rectangle primitive, split it into 32 rectangles (4x8) and added edges between corners to create triangles. I then moved some points in the Z direction and creased all faces. (Probably not ALL faces, because I can still see some imperfection, but you get the idea)

 

If Kevin had creased his edges in his trial, you can get a lot closer to what you want than you would think. it's a bit of work, but here's a quick one I did. I'll attach the file as well.

 

You can also later convert the subdivision to a mesh, if you wanted.

 

The attached file has my original subdiv object as well as the object converted to mesh, then simplified with the new Simplify Mesh command.

 

Nice! I'm glad to be proven wrong. The piece of the puzzle I was missing was to add edges between the corners to create the triangles. This is new in VW2018 I believe. Without the triangles the surfaces will always curve. This likely means you couldn't do this in VW2017 or VW2016.

 

Converting it to a mesh and using the new Simplify Mesh command makes a nice simple mesh. Too bad its not easily edited in VW after doing this. Imagine if you could grab a mesh point using a version of the 3d grabber from the Subdivision Tool interface and move points....

 

Kevin

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Vectorworks meshes have 2 edit modes. The faces around a point stick together if the point is selected and moved with the Selection tool (this is the one you want) and OIP Move field is set to Selected Vertices option.  The other mode is for moving points of a facet without pulling the surrounding facets - either dbl click to invoke the Reshape Tool, or marquee select a point with the Select tool and in OIP set the Move move field to Vertex Only option.

 

Here's the blow by blow

1. Make your mesh:

a. Draw contiguous triangles or a bunch of lines dividing a perimeter shape then create the triangles with the paint bucket tool.

b. Select the all triangles then 2 steps required - Modify>Convert to 3d Polygons>Convert to Mesh

 

2.Rotate and position the Mesh in 3d as needed (Did you draw on the Layer Plane? Switch to a side view, and rotate the Mesh to stand it up, then drag or Move by Points to relocate as desired.

 

3.Move the points in/out:

a. Don't dbl click!  Just use the Select tool by dragging a little marquee around the point you want to move.

b. If drawing is in wire frame view, zoom and marquee select a point on the Mesh. If OGL rendered and mesh has color fill or texture, hold the Shift key and drag a marquee to select a point on the Mesh. You may need to deselect the Mesh before starting a new selection.

c. The vertex should now have a blue selection rectangle.  Only one point of the mesh should be selected (unless you want to move an edge or a bunch of edges)

d.  In OIP Move field, choose the Selected Vertices option.

e. Move the point in/out numerically with Move 3d or with OIP by adjusting either the x or y value. Note that the OIP fields can do arithmetic - use the + and - characters to add or subtract the desired move distance from the current value in the OIP field. Dragging in/out doesn't work well for me because vwx does not have a way to restrict motion to specific axis or direction.

 

All the connected facets will adjust to follow the new position of the point.

 

-B

 

 

Edited by Benson Shaw
'splainin'
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Beside I forget that we have the paint bucket,

(I did some cuts to a rectangle by the cutter tool, but lines with paint bucket would be much faster)

I pulled my vertices the way you described.

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1 hour ago, Benson Shaw said:

a. Draw contiguous triangles or a bunch of lines dividing a perimeter shape then create the triangles with the paint bucket tool.

Love the paint bucket tool....

 

1 hour ago, Benson Shaw said:

3.Move the points in/out:

a. Don't dbl click!  Just use the Select tool by dragging a little marquee around the point you want to move.

b. If drawing is in wire frame view, zoom and marquee select a point on the Mesh. If OGL rendered and mesh has color fill or texture, hold the Shift key and drag a marquee to select a point on the Mesh. You may need to deselect the Mesh before starting a new selection.

c. The vertex should now have a blue selection rectangle.  Only one point of the mesh should be selected (unless you want to move an edge or a bunch of edges)

d.  In OIP Move field, choose the Selected Vertices option.

e. Move the point in/out numerically with Move 3d or with OIP by adjusting either the x or y value. Note that the OIP fields can do arithmetic - use the + and - characters to add or subtract the desired move dis

Benson, you are my hero. I knew it was possible to move the points on a mesh but couldn't remember how. I tried the reshape tool which is what you would normally use to reshape things. I had forgotten the marquee trick. So counterintuitive..... It would all still be easier if there was a 3d dragger style edit mode.

 

Kevin

 

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18 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

It would all still be easier if there was a 3d dragger style edit mode.

 

I think everything would be easier if there would be one.

Even in 2D only.

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WOW!!! what an amazing response, thank you all for your feedback, it is all greatly noted, i will have a play around and post what i find.


Thanks again.

Josh 

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I ran into a somewhat similar challenge a while ago and received some great suggestions. Take a look at the thread below:

 

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As assumed earlier, here's a Marionette example.

This will randomize points within a rectangle (rudimentary, totally possible to do any shape you want) and create triangles within it. I then got a list of the points that shared corners with other triangles and gave them random Z values to make sure they all lined up.

The result is a bunch of 3D polys.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Made this for a new Vectorworks user taking over this job from me.  I thought I would share since I wouldn't have been able to do it myself without this thread.  Thank you all!

 

- Make a Mesh:

1. Draw overall shape (Rectangle in this case) and then use lines to sub-divide it into smaller shapes (Triangles in this case).  Triangles don’t need to be exact at this point.  Make sure you have one corner of the Rect. at 0,0 coordinate to make adjusting the vertices of the triangles easier later on.  Also make sure it is in the Layer Plane, not Screen Plane or else you. Won’t be able to navigate to the side view or fly around it.

 

 1249498942_ScreenShot2021-04-30at12_38_10PM.thumb.png.b8ef6033d1dd905dbf5aa290512ca4ed.png

 

2.  Use the Paint Bucket tool from the Polygon tool and “fill in “ each shape.  Select all shapes (without) selecting the lines or rectangle you originally drew an go to Modify - Convert - 3D Polys

1313256543_ScreenShot2021-04-30at12_40_51PM.thumb.png.d2fcf5ba13bc76051f21ca874762795e.png

 

3.  Make sure only your new 3d Poly is selected and go to Modify - Convert - To Mesh

684558119_ScreenShot2021-04-30at12_43_01PM.thumb.png.b34438955f5d894a2d9094896d600a5f.png1163165200_ScreenShot2021-04-30at12_54_03PM.thumb.png.8f35af6100f3b74a44e2190b57d78a44.png

 

4.  Navigate to a side view of the Mesh (“#4" numerical key pad short-cut) and rotate (“Q”) it 90 deg from 0,0

 

5.  Rotate camera around in 3D to see the whole Mesh.  Drag a marque box around one vertices until a blue box appears.  Click and Hold on the box and drag it into a new position (do not double-click).  Or, with the blue box showing, change the coordinates in the OIP to specify it’s new X,Y,Z location. (Much easier when one corner starts at 0,0)

 

758502583_ScreenShot2021-04-30at12_57_29PM.thumb.png.f0ee4d723480c54adfb7638a08d927f0.png

OR

239614276_ScreenShot2021-04-30at1_02_13PM.thumb.png.145b9dca32b3e9fdd8db991fc2b43635.png

1582593420_ScreenShot2021-04-30at12_58_17PM.thumb.png.9a43313f94b9ee3d6a3394139f3cc73a.png

If a Triangle plane disappears like in the above photo, no problem, just double click on the Mesh to enter the editing group view and use the 3D Polygon tool in the 3D Modeling tool set to draw it back in place.  It disappears because there aren’t enough vertices around the point being moved.

 

 - Isolate each triangle to find lengths of sides and angles of each piece by using the “Unfold” command (which only works ons “Nurbs”):

 

5.  Convert the Mesh to a Nurbs Surface.  (Maybe make copy first?)

256704119_ScreenShot2021-04-30at1_42_41PM.thumb.png.3e2a481a8a4b66dfa526d1e69ffa86cf.png

 

6.  Then got to Model - 3D Power Pack - Unfold Surfaces.  You will end up pieces all over the place.  So it’s best to assign a different color to each triangle before Unfolding.  That way you can easily tell which triangle belongs where on the model.

840263238_ScreenShot2021-04-30at1_46_05PM.thumb.png.d5f98b5a34ba0cd2b4386f88a71f97a8.png

 

7.  You will end up with something like this, after you find all the pieces that spewed all over the screen.

1511755962_ScreenShot2021-04-30at10_52_03AM.thumb.png.4214d3ea793727d184ec72edb0654e17.png

  

 

Edited by Tshwayder
added photo
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