zoomer Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 (Beside that I am pretty known for wanting Screen Plane System to die completely) When I use Referenced 2D Source Data by Design Layer Viewports to draw over, that works fine in Top Plan View. But if I need a Crop for my VPs, which is forced to be defined using Screen Plane, and want to use my 2D underlay to model also in 3D, like in an Isometric View, That crop will be oriented different than my geometry in View (by Screen Plane so to say*) and so cut parts of my needed 2D Plan. That makes referenced Geometry pretty useless in 3D (*) the Crop is not oriented by screen plane in reality, it is just rotated in to screen plane's rotation. As it will scale/zoome and move related to my Geometry. Otherwise I could at least zoom in to re-visibilize the occluded parts of my 2D plan underlay. Quote Link to comment
0 zoomer Posted October 7, 2017 Author Share Posted October 7, 2017 BTW It doesn't matter if I have "Project Screen Objects" On or Off. Or if I "Display Screen Objects" in Model View Settings. Quote Link to comment
0 Wesley Burrows Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) If you are referring to this: (2D DLVP crop of entire venue down to the space I want) Looks like this in top/plan: (As I want and would expect) When switching to an ISOMETRIC view or fly over I get this: Then absolutely, this is frustrating. You are right, there is no way to force the crop to layer plane. (That I have found) Edited March 21, 2018 by Wesley Burrows 2 Quote Link to comment
0 markdd Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I queried this a few years ago and got a slightly indignant response from a Vectorworks staffer that it was "working as designed!" 1 Quote Link to comment
0 Pat Stanford Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 "Working as Designed" = working the way the original specification that we programmed from says it was supposed to work. Since the original specification says nothing about what the behavior should be in an isometric view (probably because no one ever thought about using it that way until after it was done), we just programmed a simple view that will work in top/plan. It sounds like you need to submit an "Enhancement Request" (definitely not a bug) and explain HOW the current implementation of the viewport crop does not meet your needs and what you would like it to do instead. I know that some of this stuff seems really obvious, but remember, most of the people actually writing the code for Vectorworks are not frequent users of the program. Unless the instructions specifically state that something is a requirement for the task, they might not have a good enough understanding of your workflow to realize they are not providing what appears (to the experienced user) should be a definite requirement. From an architectural example, what would you do if you a client comes back to you after you submit construction documents and says "there was supposed to a pool house and a barn as well as the original house. Where are they". You go back to the contract (the specification the programer is working from) and say "We delivered everything that was in the contract" (Working as Designed). Are you going to go back and design the pool house and barn? Probably not unless the client is willing to renegotiate the contract. I believe that most of the people at VW want to give us what we want. But in many cases, they have been given incorrect specifications to make something have maximal usefulness. And they don't have the authority to change the spec to give you what you want. And Working as Designed, is just programmer shorthand for "I can't help you right now." Submit the Enhancement Request and hopefully the chain of command will agree that it is important and you will see it in a future version. 1 Quote Link to comment
0 Wesley Burrows Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Pat Stanford said: Submit the Enhancement Request and hopefully the chain of command will agree that it is important and you will see it in a future version. At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, is there an official enhancement request channel or is this forum it? Quote Link to comment
0 Pat Stanford Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 This is already in the Wishlist Forum, so it is in the right place. Anything else to add about submitting wished @JimW? Quote Link to comment
0 Wesley Burrows Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) @zoomer, Could we maybe update the title of this Wish to more clearly reflect what we're after? Something like "Enhancement Req - DLVP Crop should be assignable to layer plane" or something. @markdd Would you mind up-voting this thread if you'd like to see this implemented? -W Edited March 22, 2018 by Wesley Burrows Quote Link to comment
0 Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted March 22, 2018 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted March 22, 2018 11 hours ago, Pat Stanford said: This is already in the Wishlist Forum, so it is in the right place. Anything else to add about submitting wished @JimW? 11 hours ago, Wesley Burrows said: At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, is there an official enhancement request channel or is this forum it? This subforum is the right place for the time being. We are working on making it easier and the method of submitting requests might change in the future, but for now this is the place. Quote Link to comment
0 zoomer Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 11 hours ago, Wesley Burrows said: @zoomer, Could we maybe update the title of this Wish to more clearly reflect what we're after? Something like "Enhancement Req - DLVP Crop should be assignable to layer plane" or something. I can do this. Ah ... what do we want exactly ? Do you have a suggestion for the a better header ? 13 hours ago, Pat Stanford said: "Working as Designed" = working the way the original specification that we programmed from says it was supposed to work. Since the original specification says nothing about what the behavior should be in an isometric view (probably because no one ever thought about using it that way until after it was done), we just programmed a simple view that will work in top/plan. It sounds like you need to submit an "Enhancement Request" (definitely not a bug) and explain HOW the current implementation of the viewport crop does not meet your needs and what you would like it to do instead. I know that some of this stuff seems really obvious, but remember, most of the people actually writing the code for Vectorworks are not frequent users of the program. Unless the instructions specifically state that something is a requirement for the task, they might not have a good enough understanding of your workflow to realize they are not providing what appears (to the experienced user) should be a definite requirement. From an architectural example, what would you do if you a client comes back to you after you submit construction documents and says "there was supposed to a pool house and a barn as well as the original house. Where are they". You go back to the contract (the specification the programer is working from) and say "We delivered everything that was in the contract" (Working as Designed). Are you going to go back and design the pool house and barn? Probably not unless the client is willing to renegotiate the contract. I believe that most of the people at VW want to give us what we want. But in many cases, they have been given incorrect specifications to make something have maximal usefulness. And they don't have the authority to change the spec to give you what you want. And Working as Designed, is just programmer shorthand for "I can't help you right now." Submit the Enhancement Request and hopefully the chain of command will agree that it is important and you will see it in a future version. uh, that sounds pretty much like heavy bureaucracy and work-to-rules. Hope it isn't that bad. There is a large gap between Users and Developers with JimW and his Team in between and I think there needs to be some translation done between both worlds. I think a terrifying "WAD" is for a user as meaningful and helpful (and a bit annoying) as an error message like : "Exception in Hexcode of choice" (Cancel) (OK) And should not reach a user. 15 hours ago, markdd said: I queried this a few years ago and got a slightly indignant response from a Vectorworks staffer that it was "working as designed!" A User does not care or can differentiate between Bug/Feature/Change Request. He wants such things simply to be changed so that its different than it is now. So a useful translation could be : Dear example user, thanks for your report, we watched you issue closely. But the Tool is indeed not broken, it works well as it was designed at that time. We see your problem so we forwarded your wish as a Change Request for you. But we are sorry to tell you that this has [ ] very low priority [X] is very hard to implement in the current System [ ] impossible [ ] other excuse of choice that you can't expect a solution in the near future. Kind Regards, your VW 3 Quote Link to comment
0 Markvl Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 23 hours ago, zoomer said: But we are sorry to tell you that this has [ ] very low priority [X] is very hard to implement in the current System [ ] impossible [ ] other excuse of choice that you can't expect a solution in the near future. Kind Regards, your VW @zoomer Nice! Quote Link to comment
Question
zoomer
(Beside that I am pretty known for wanting Screen Plane System to die completely)
When I use Referenced 2D Source Data by Design Layer Viewports to draw over,
that works fine in Top Plan View.
But if I need a Crop for my VPs,
which is forced to be defined using Screen Plane,
and want to use my 2D underlay to model also in 3D, like in an Isometric View,
That crop will be oriented different than my geometry in View (by Screen Plane so to say*)
and so cut parts of my needed 2D Plan.
That makes referenced Geometry pretty useless in 3D
(*) the Crop is not oriented by screen plane in reality, it is just rotated in to screen plane's rotation.
As it will scale/zoome and move related to my Geometry.
Otherwise I could at least zoom in to re-visibilize the occluded parts of my 2D plan underlay.
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