Popular Post bc Posted September 21, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) EDIT: Just thought I'd bump this and put a more realistic time frame on the title..... Kudos to those responsible for the current VW iteration. I would like to request the following feature for 2020 or later. It's huge, I know, but overdue. We need a stair tool (and railing tool) that approaches this: Go here to see what archiCAD has: http://www.graphisoft.com/archicad/ Scroll down to the Archicad 21 Premier Event video and begin at about minute 18 to see a 20 min presentation on what a stair tool should do. Thank you for your consideration of this matter. We need a no-nonsense comprehensive stair tool please. Edited September 10, 2019 by bc 20 2 Quote Link to comment
0 Christiaan Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 There's no doubt ArchiCAD hit a home run with this tool. A lot of tools could get this kind of treatment. 2 Quote Link to comment
0 td4stage Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Wow! That's impressive! Quote Link to comment
0 Art V Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Yes, that stair tool would be really nice to have, but then please also implement it for the landmark version instead of just the architect version. I need stairs quite a lot for platforms etc. and the current stair tool is too often more a hassle than a useful tool. Quote Link to comment
0 Diego - Resuelvector Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I agree totally, even lost some of the functions of the old stair like the ability to add and remove flights Quote Link to comment
0 Popular Post jnr Posted September 28, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted September 28, 2017 I cant take it anymore. The current stair tool SUCKS. The feedback from the some of the wonderful staff at the summit last week is that there is agreement in the ranks that it needs to be addressed. The users have been complaining about it for years. The interface is entirely too complex, lacks functionality; its highly inflexible. We have three of them. The old custom stair tool worked well, unfortunately as a legacy tool, it will corrupt your files. Please let me know who in the food chain is responsible for this decision. The company does a good job at responding to its user base except for this one function which is critical to architects and landscape architects. The Archicad stair tool (if it does what the marketing video claims) makes the Vectorworks stair tool look juvenile. For example, the Archicad technology completed in maybe 20 minutes what took me a half a day to build with Vectorworks for a similar stair and ramp. What's hard to believe is that with all of the focus on advancing technology and functionality, especially with BIM capability, that this tool languishes. The tool needs to be a priorty for the next version, not two or three versions from now. 8 Quote Link to comment
0 Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted September 28, 2017 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted September 28, 2017 If anyone who has voted for this thread has not also voted for the one below, please do so: Unfortunately I can't merge threads without losing existing votes so... go nuts! 3 Quote Link to comment
0 Popular Post rDesign Posted September 28, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted September 28, 2017 I know the development cycle takes time, but Vw2020? How many years have the users on this forum been complaining about the Stair Tool? I would hope that Vw has already been hard at work on replacing the Stair tool with something more like the new ArchiCad Stair tool. It should be a priority to implement it in the next version, Vw2019. 8 Quote Link to comment
0 bc Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 I agree rDesign. It's just that I felt that 2020 would be reasonable considering it may NOT already be in the works. 2 Quote Link to comment
0 line-weight Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Yup, stair, doors, windows - potentially the 3 most useful of any of the parametric tools for architecture - the ones which if they worked well, could really save a lot of time and tedium, yet they are all fairly awful and don't seem to have been improved in any significant way over the past several releases. 3 Quote Link to comment
0 Markvl Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 16 hours ago, line-weight said: Yup, stair, doors, windows - potentially the 3 most useful of any of the parametric tools for architecture - the ones which if they worked well, could really save a lot of time and tedium, yet they are all fairly awful and don't seem to have been improved in any significant way over the past several releases. Couldn't agree more. 1 Quote Link to comment
0 Kevin Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Using VW2017, my file has crashed five times while trying to use the stair tool. It got so bad that the file would crash upon re-opening without me doing anything. How am I supposed to earn a living, when I am spending my time watching my file crash, (and then take quite a long time to reload), only to crash again. Quote Link to comment
0 mac@stairworks Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) I've been waiting since MiniCad for the stair tool to be usable. It's frustrating to watch a new version come out every year with new tools, new features and still the stair tool gets left behind. I know they added some new stair layouts, but part of the consistent problems are the details. 1. This one, to me, is the most important: Designing a set of winders or circular stair without being able to set the travel line. By code, the stairs need to be a minimum at the travel line. I'm sure it varies from place to place, but it needs to be determined in order for the treads to be laid out properly, unless you're on of those that just draws in any stairs to make it look good, but when it comes time for building them, they don't fit into the given opening. I've tried laying out a set of winders with the stair tool and it was not even close to code. Setting where the travel line goes will mean the winders will be drawn at a minimum (I'll use 10") rough run. Where I am, the travel line is measured 12" in from the narrow end of the stair. 2. In addition to the travel line, code requires a minimum depth at the narrow edge of the stair. In Massachusetts it's 3" minimum, in New Hampshire it's 6", so designing stairs for both states is difficult using the stair tool for these two reasons alone. There needs to be more input to have a more accurate output as well as flexibility. As part of the dialogue box, there should be an input for minimum tread depth at the travel line, and a minimum tread depth at the narrow end of the tread or winder. 3. Make the dialogue boxes in an order of importance for the design. The first things you need to know are floor to floor height, maximum riser height, number of risers, minimum tread depth AT THE TRAVEL LINE, minimum tread depth at the narrow end of the tread or winder, tread thickness, nosing depth (see #4), stair width (or radius, inside or outside). 4. The tread depth should not be the finished tread depth but the rough run (or as some refer to as the "going"). Determine the rough run (according to code) and then the tread overhang (or nosing depth) should be the additional part of the tread that extends past the riser. It's no wonder people are confused when they use the stair tool. For me, it's not confusion, it's frustration not being able to add information necessary to create the stairs accurately. 5. I would like to see a stair tool that has the ability to place newel posts and balusters based on custom symbols created by the user, like the extensive library I have been working on for years. Similar to the "Fence" tool that Vectorworks added last year or the year before, have a library of parts you can plug in and exchange. 6. Custom rail profiles. If you have a custom profile you should be able to add it to a library of other profiles, and as Vectorworks creates a rail, there should be the capability of using any 2D profile. 6. Rail height: How about setting two rail heights. Rake rails separate from balcony rails. Again, rake rail code (IRC) is 34-38" residential, balcony rails are a minimum 36". Allow the user to set these separately as it will help in the design elements and accuracy of the post heights. 7. Create stair from 2D plan: What if you have a stair design with a lot of different shaped winders? Laying out all of the tread shapes (in the rough) and then selecting them to create a 3D model. 8. The ability to draw open stair treads with returns There are many more, but another time. I'm not saying stairs are easy to program because there is a ton of math and details that go into it in order to get it right, but there needs to be some additional places for input if we're going to draw them accurately. I am constantly getting stair drawings from architects that will not work due to code issues. At that point they are not "working" drawings... just drawings. IMO, I don't think we should have to wait until 2020. For me, that's a 20 year wait and I've seen a ton of new tools in that time introduced when the stair tool gets ignored year after year. Isn't it more important to have a great stair tool, especially in an architectural program, rather than a subdivision tool that makes fancy blobs and gets major improvements the second year. I think there has been plenty of time to improve this tool, even if just one of anyone's wish list items were granted each year, it would be a much better tool by now. Get rid of the confusion of "Which stair tool should I be using" and make one consistent, useful tool. Maybe two if the curved stair tool needs to be separate. Edited December 12, 2017 by mac@stairworks Quote Link to comment
0 line-weight Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 21 hours ago, mac@stairworks said: I've been waiting since MiniCad for the stair tool to be usable. It's frustrating to watch a new version come out every year with new tools, new features and still the stair tool gets left behind. I know they added some new stair layouts, but part of the consistent problems are the details. 1. This one, to me, is the most important: Designing a set of winders or circular stair without being able to set the travel line. By code, the stairs need to be a minimum at the travel line. I'm sure it varies from place to place, but it needs to be determined in order for the treads to be laid out properly, unless you're on of those that just draws in any stairs to make it look good, but when it comes time for building them, they don't fit into the given opening. I've tried laying out a set of winders with the stair tool and it was not even close to code. Setting where the travel line goes will mean the winders will be drawn at a minimum (I'll use 10") rough run. Where I am, the travel line is measured 12" in from the narrow end of the stair. 2. In addition to the travel line, code requires a minimum depth at the narrow edge of the stair. In Massachusetts it's 3" minimum, in New Hampshire it's 6", so designing stairs for both states is difficult using the stair tool for these two reasons alone. There needs to be more input to have a more accurate output as well as flexibility. As part of the dialogue box, there should be an input for minimum tread depth at the travel line, and a minimum tread depth at the narrow end of the tread or winder. 3. Make the dialogue boxes in an order of importance for the design. The first things you need to know are floor to floor height, maximum riser height, number of risers, minimum tread depth AT THE TRAVEL LINE, minimum tread depth at the narrow end of the tread or winder, tread thickness, nosing depth (see #4), stair width (or radius, inside or outside). 4. The tread depth should not be the finished tread depth but the rough run (or as some refer to as the "going"). Determine the rough run (according to code) and then the tread overhang (or nosing depth) should be the additional part of the tread that extends past the riser. It's no wonder people are confused when they use the stair tool. For me, it's not confusion, it's frustration not being able to add information necessary to create the stairs accurately. 5. I would like to see a stair tool that has the ability to place newel posts and balusters based on custom symbols created by the user, like the extensive library I have been working on for years. Similar to the "Fence" tool that Vectorworks added last year or the year before, have a library of parts you can plug in and exchange. 6. Custom rail profiles. If you have a custom profile you should be able to add it to a library of other profiles, and as Vectorworks creates a rail, there should be the capability of using any 2D profile. 6. Rail height: How about setting two rail heights. Rake rails separate from balcony rails. Again, rake rail code (IRC) is 34-38" residential, balcony rails are a minimum 36". Allow the user to set these separately as it will help in the design elements and accuracy of the post heights. 7. Create stair from 2D plan: What if you have a stair design with a lot of different shaped winders? Laying out all of the tread shapes (in the rough) and then selecting them to create a 3D model. 8. The ability to draw open stair treads with returns There are many more, but another time. I'm not saying stairs are easy to program because there is a ton of math and details that go into it in order to get it right, but there needs to be some additional places for input if we're going to draw them accurately. I am constantly getting stair drawings from architects that will not work due to code issues. At that point they are not "working" drawings... just drawings. Completely agree with all this. Another problem with the current stair tool is that what it produces in 3d is made up of polygons rather than solids. So it's not even possible to get it to build you a "nearly right" version, convert to solids and edit manually. Quote Link to comment
0 fabrica Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 voted ! but 2020 is far too long to wait for an update on this , likewise window and door tools..... shouldn't even be on a wishlist in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment
0 Itchy Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 On 9/29/2017 at 7:34 AM, bc said: I agree rDesign. It's just that I felt that 2020 would be reasonable considering it may NOT already be in the works. Surely it has to be in the works. I still use the custom stair as the new stair tool can be so limiting. As it turns out the last project I ended up putting the stair on its own layer, modelling all the railings/cappings etc separate to the stair object then using fills and classes to hide certain aspects so it would appear correctly on the upper and lower levels - rails and all. Quote Link to comment
0 bc Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 Well, yes a good stair tool has been requested since I can remember. It appears the latest rendition was their best shot at appeasement given their other funding priorities. We've all developed our ways to deal with it. I merely wished that NNA would. The stair tool is pretty much the main reason I started calling it VectorWorksAround. If they can pull this off, then I will come around, but I didn't post this to rant. Macstairworks and Lineweight make excellent points and those are something to shoot for yet what ArchiCAD has done is a game changer in the order of a paradigm shift. That's why I added some time. I should have requested they make this the next absolute priority. 1 Quote Link to comment
0 zoomer Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Generally the Stair tool as it is works well for me in most cases. In some cases it is easier to use it flight by flight and do custom landings to have better control. Or create a manual first riser when extension needed. It is not so fun to use and won't create complete stair cases by one click. Railings do not always what you would expect. And as far as I remember, the 2D appearance doesn't resemble the 3D actual geometry and does not work as a underlay to model landings in 3D. Quote Link to comment
0 JMR Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 I get ok results with the actual stairs, but the railings are a constant headache. Where the railing goes around the landing, there is a strange vertical jump. This renders the railing unusable elsewhere than in plan. Quote Link to comment
0 zoomer Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Yes, something seems to be wrong with the railings. There is (or was) some ugly vertical offset for the last riser. I think that was an other problem with VW 2014-16 (?) where there was some hick up with railings where they meet on a landing of a U-Stair. Or maybe just not for me because I used single stairs for my U-stairs (?) But it is quite tedious if you want stair ends at special positions, when the stair origin, from where it extends for changes, is always at the wrong side Quote Link to comment
0 mac@stairworks Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 There should be more control over the railing offset as well. A railing isn't always the same distance from the edge of the stairs. If a rail terminates into the center of a 2x6 wall, the offset will be different than if the rail terminates into a 2x4 wall. Post placement and centering of rails terminating into end walls dictate the offset of the rail. Quote Link to comment
0 Boh Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Please fix the stair tool! 1 Quote Link to comment
0 line-weight Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 It's been discussed elsewhere that windows and doors could be rolled into one tool that does both, because there's not always a clear distinction whether something's one or the other. I wonder if there could be one tool that could produce ramps, stair flights, landings, maybe even just pathway segments, all of which could have one set of controls including for things like handrails and all of which could join one another intelligently. Why? One set of controls to learn. One tool for the developers team to keep up with, instead of different tools doing similar things diverging in capability, control methods etc. And also because these elements are often used in conjunction with each other. And it would make it easier to set up something like a handrail style, which you might want consistent throughout a building, and apply it to different elements consistently. 1 Quote Link to comment
0 Popular Post bc Posted September 14, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) @ JimW, I guess it's time to bump this issue again. Kudos to those responsible for the 2019 iteration. Nice that we can attach to floors/landings with a bit more believable/realistic options. I was wondering if it's possible for you to inform us if a rework is at least in the works? Not a promise of when but a promise that a rework is in the works. Many years ago a traffic study showed that drivers were willing to put up with bad traffic during road construction knowing that a new highway was being built and not just reworking the intersections. Are we going to get a new "highway"? bc Edited September 14, 2018 by bc 5 Quote Link to comment
0 Markvl Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 On 12/12/2017 at 11:16 AM, fabrica said: voted ! but 2020 is far too long to wait for an update on this , likewise window and door tools..... shouldn't even be on a wishlist in the first place. Next release? Who knows? Quote Link to comment
0 fabrica Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 23 minutes ago, Markvl said: Next release? Who knows? Its embarrassing at this stage....... “For this release, we listened closely to our customers and balanced new innovations with exceptional quality and performance improvements,” said Vectorworks CEO Dr. Biplab Sarkar. “Specifically, in Vectorworks 2019 we concentrated on our customers’ most common workflows and usage patterns to increase their overall productivity with Vectorworks products across the board.” Stairs, windows, doors are not part of architects common workflow?! do not need performance improvements?! .... 2 Quote Link to comment
Question
bc
EDIT: Just thought I'd bump this and put a more realistic time frame on the title.....
Kudos to those responsible for the current VW iteration.
I would like to request the following feature for 2020 or later. It's huge, I know, but overdue.
We need a stair tool (and railing tool) that approaches this:
Go here to see what archiCAD has:
http://www.graphisoft.com/archicad/
Scroll down to the Archicad 21 Premier Event video and begin at about minute 18 to see a 20 min presentation on what a stair tool should do.
Thank you for your consideration of this matter.
We need a no-nonsense comprehensive stair tool please.
Edited by bcLink to comment
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EDIT: Just thought I'd bump this and put a more realistic time frame on the title..... Kudos to those responsible for the current VW iteration. I would like to request the fol
jnr
I cant take it anymore. The current stair tool SUCKS. The feedback from the some of the wonderful staff at the summit last week is that there is agreement in the ranks that it needs to be
rDesign
I know the development cycle takes time, but Vw2020? How many years have the users on this forum been complaining about the Stair Tool? I would hope that Vw has already been hard at work o
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