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VW 2018 (and VW2021): Push-pull tool problems continue

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This is a continuation of an issue that I was already having in 2017. Mentioned in a couple of threads by me and others previously without much response.

 

Essentially: the push pull tool (a) struggles to select faces, (b) fails completely to select faces, or (c) causes a freeze with spinning beachball when there are moderately complex objects in the drawing.

 

As far as I can work out, it happens as soon as one of those objects is behind whatever face you are trying to select.

 

This has been a big problem in a drawing where I had a few imported symbols (from BIMobject and elsewhere). It became impossible to use the push-pull tool to edit simple objects in the drawings, unless I hid all of those complex objects. To make sure this isn't a problem specific to that drawing file, I've created a new and fairly simple one in VW2018. If anyone would like to see if they can replicate this, here is what I did:

- new blank file.

- go to BIMobject download. I downloaded fairly much at random a server unit casing, in SKP format. If you type "sr25ub" into the BIMobject search bar you should find it.

- I placed two of these units next to each other

- then I drew a simple extruded rectangle, sitting next to them. See screenshots below.

- one of the screenshots has a viewpoint with the extruded block to the left. using this viewpoint, the push-pull tool will select any face on the white block easily and correctly, and function as expected.

- however - the other screenshot has a viewpoint with the server units hiding behind the white block. using this viewpoint, the push pull tool struggles to select the face of the white block at all, and I get freezes and spinning beachballs.

 

This doesn't seem like an overly complex drawing. My machine specs are posted down below. It's a refurbed/upgraded mac pro.

 

I've attached the drawing file too.

 

59bd3d78d32a4_ScreenShot2017-09-16at16_02_53.jpg.e9043ca56dc3ed4919e344efdbcd1f02.jpg59bd3d798fe99_ScreenShot2017-09-16at16_03_19.jpg.437b1738a6ed59d21ddb58013a3dfaa1.jpg

 

59bd3edcc19d4_ScreenShot2017-09-16at16_08_49.jpg.e5d138baa2d8aeba883def3c0d5275d5.jpg

pptest.vwx

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@line-weight,

I can reproduce the problem with your "PPT.vwx" file and do see a few tools affected.  I added (to bug VB-175964) your file along with a video showing the problem with a handful of tools.

 

Thank you for bringing this to my attention!

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53 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

@line-weight,

I can reproduce the problem with your "PPT.vwx" file and do see a few tools affected.  I added (to bug VB-175964) your file along with a video showing the problem with a handful of tools.

 

Thank you for bringing this to my attention!

 

Thank you for this.

 

Back in September 2017 (as can be seen on the first page of this thread) JimW reported a bug for what I think is essentially the same, or a related problem.

 

That was recorded as VB-145786. Is there any record of what happened to that, in the intervening 3.5 years?

 

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NOTE:  The 3D face picking issue is not related to the picking of invisible geometry.  I split this issue off into a separate bug (VB-177561).

 

2 hours ago, line-weight said:

Back in September 2017 (as can be seen on the first page of this thread) JimW reported a bug for what I think is essentially the same, or a related problem.

That was recorded as VB-145786. Is there any record of what happened to that, in the intervening 3.5 years?

 

That bug number had to do with the BIM Object and was resolved as working as designed.  The push/pull issue related to it, I believe, was reported as a separate bug.  I do not know the bug number for that and don't see anything after doing a quick search.

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4 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

NOTE:  The 3D face picking issue is not related to the picking of invisible geometry.  I split this issue off into a separate bug (VB-177561).

 

Ok - thanks for the explanation.

 

4 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

That bug number had to do with the BIM Object and was resolved as working as designed.  The push/pull issue related to it, I believe, was reported as a separate bug.  I do not know the bug number for that and don't see anything after doing a quick search.

 

I'm not sure I understand what "resolved as working as designed" means - does that mean that it was decided it wasn't a bug after all?

 

I just tried downloading the file that I attached to the very first post in this thread. I can replicate exactly what I report in that post - face selection from certain viewpoints becomes unreliable and provokes freezes and spinning beachballs. This is three releases of Vectorworks later, in VW2021 SP3 and on a brand new mac. To me this seems to suggest that nothing has been done about trying to fix these issues in all this time.

 

Not intended as a criticism of you @Matt Panzer and I appreciate your feedback on this - but this kind of thing is why I now so often feel like submitting bugs is just a waste of my time.

 

 

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I note, by the way, that this thread has the second largest number of upvotes in the "known issues" section of the feedback forum.

 

That suggests it's not an obscure problem that only I am bothered by.

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Working As Designed (WAD) is a software term meaning that the performance is not considered a bug. It means that based on the documentation submitted to the programer (from whoever wrote the specification) the code does what the specification called for.

 

It does not mean that the specification was not wrong, or that the person(s) who wrote the specification fully understood the need. It is completely (often) possible to have a tool/object that is completely WAD, but that is not suitable for "your" (or even anyones) needs.

 

If you ever get back a notification that something is WAD but you don't like what it does, the next step is to create a wish list item and fully explain what you need the tool/object to do and how and why the existing implementation does not work.

 

And be careful what you wish for.  I am relatively certain that the third mode of the rectangle tool (midpoint to corner) was based on a wish I submitted. But I find it almost useless because the specification I provided originally was incomplete. But often it is impossible to see that until you have a mock up to test on.

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Still a bit of a mystery to me, what exactly was submitted as VB-145786, and what was deemed to be working as designed!

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, line-weight said:

 

Still a bit of a mystery to me, what exactly was submitted as VB-145786, and what was deemed to be working as designed!


I believe the WAD part is due to the geometry that BIM Object system provides.  This is geometry that VW essentially imports,  not creates.  I don’t know the specifics, but I believe that is why the VB is WAD.  However, the push/pull issues was moved to a separate bug.

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