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Kevin McAllister

Title Block Border - Direct Editing in Project Data and Sheet Data Panes

PVA - Jim

This UI improvement was introduced in Vectorworks 2019.

Message added by PVA - Jim

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Could we please have direct editing of fields on the Project Data and Sheet Data panes of the new Title Block Border? Having to click the data element and then enter a separate box at the bottom is a regression to the old OIP Data tab (pre-VW2017).

 

Currently editing these panes looks like this -

 

59bbe6e9b2145_ScreenShot2017-09-15at7_30_27AM.png.6011f7b0bee9a95993c29c0ccc4afa70.png

 

but it should be more like the direct editing of the current OIP Data tab like this -

 

59bbe7175746b_ScreenShot2017-09-15at7_36_11AM.png.f8d08806fd023599aa01606fc3184bab.png

 

where you can directly edit the fields.

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 

Edited by Kevin McAllister
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I agree! I have only started fumbling with this very complex tool in 2018 and my first reactions are...what's the point? This is more difficult than it needs to be?

 

...Also, all of my old sheet border titleblocks no longer work. This means I have to redo all of the efforts and reformat them all to work with the new tool?

Edited by ericjhberg

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The data entry is definitely a little more cumbersome with the new setup. We used to manage our sets with custom worksheets that controlled various record fields to which text in our title block was linked. We could also attach our title block record format to placeholder objects for sheets that we wanted to include in our index, e.g. a survey, but didn't want to have to actually add to our drawing file as sheets. The five record formats now used by the revamped Title Block Border object are hidden and cannot be accessed except through editing that object, nor can they be attached to other objects. These record formats are:

 

Title Block Border

Title Block Project Data

Title Block Sheet Data

Title Block Issue Data-x

Title Block Revision Data-x

 

Unfortunately only a few of the fields in these can be written to from a worksheet, and the one that I most wish could be set from a worksheet is the one that determines whether a sheet is part of the current set:  'Title Block Border'.'This Title Block Is Active' .  That would make it much faster to include/exclude sheets from a set by simply setting this boolean right in the worksheet – quick with a very clear overiew. Guess I'll submit a feature request...  BTW, anyone running into significant delays when editing a Title Block Border style?

 

Cheers,

Markus

 

...follow up:  more trials show that data entry in custom fields in the above record formats (you can add them when you edit the Title Block Border) via worksheet cells results in buggy display – I've even got multiple superimposed characters displaying for one field in my title block after attempting to enter values this way. Bummer.

Edited by Markus Barrera-Kolb
corrections, follow-up

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I too have started messing around with this and while the overall presentation of the information is nice I would prefer to be able to edit it in the OIP as well.

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Please make the data entry for the new Title Block easier & quicker, for instance, by allowing us to tab from one entry field to the next instead of having to first click the field title and then into the input box for every input. Please also allow us to enter values for fields in the Title block through worksheets (doesn't seem to be currently supported), making it possible to manage drawing sets using custom worksheets, as we'd been in doing in our office with previous versions of VW.

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And while we're at it, how about editing in place, on the drawing, like virtually all other text!

 

I can see a unifying tool to help manage many pages of multiple sizes, for different sets, through all the changes we do. But if you can't improve on a custom worksheet you need to go back to work.

 

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Also, the wierd conceptual issue with style controlled sheet data, and how that is different than project data - idk - I am sure there is a scenario where you would want that - but can't think of one off hand. 

I liked the sheet border tool - when you doubled clicked you just had access to the information - it did not assume you wanted to change all or any aspects of the title block itself. 

 

While I agree that the title block tool is more approachable as far as setup than the old system of coded record formats - once you get it set up it is way more cumbersome to use.   you need better faster access to at least sheet level data directly in the OIP.

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25 minutes ago, Tom Klaber said:

While I agree that the title block tool is more approachable as far as setup than the old system of coded record formats - once you get it set up it is way more cumbersome to use.

 

Agreed.

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...it also doesn't make any sense for a user to be able to add or subtract data fields from the title block once it's set up and the only task at hand is to add information to the title block on any given sheet. Adding or subtracting fields made more sense previously by editing the actual record format, separating the tasks of title block (i.e. database) setup and data entry.

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On 9/15/2017 at 5:27 PM, Markus Barrera-Kolb said:

 

Unfortunately only a few of the fields in these can be written to from a worksheet, and the one that I most wish could be set from a worksheet is the one that determines whether a sheet is part of the current set:  'Title Block Border'.'This Title Block Is Active' .  That would make it much faster to include/exclude sheets from a set by simply setting this boolean right in the worksheet – quick with a very clear overiew. Guess I'll submit a feature request...  BTW, anyone running into significant delays when editing a Title Block Border style?

 

3

 

I have made a worksheet that calls the 'This Title Block is Active' - and I am using that to control that setting.   I used to have a whole "Issue Manager" worksheet to control everything - now with the new Titlblock border tool, it is down to sheet page number, sheet number, title, and the "This titleblock is active".  I also have a custom "Filing Set" Boolean to distinguish construction from filing.

 

Yes.  I have CRAZY delays when editing titlebock. 

 

Edited by Tom Klaber

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Coming around on the new method, but the roll out was really bad.  

That the "titleblock style" becomes a resource that has no category (buried in the rest of the muck of unfoldered stuff) is not good.

I get the concept that there is sheet data (things that change per sheet) and that there is project data (things that do not change per sheet, but change per project).  This allows me to create a new table of contents by gathering record data of "sheet data." But I had to manually get at the "revision data" because  VW has hidden that record set.  Oh, why didn't I just use the title block manager, and the available issue manager?  Because, while it's good for doing a quick scroll through of every titleblock to check data, when I invoke the issue manager it just crashes.  

 

Overall though, it's better than my old system.  I like that editing the symbol allows for easy highlighting of text and connecting it to records via the OIP.  There is a lot of back and forth though.  

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Tom, are you able to control the 'This Title Block is Active' boolean from your worksheet? I've been unable to do so, which is in part why I've ditched the built-in issue and revision data system altogether, made my own boolean that controls whether a sheet is included in our index, added sheet-based issue fields, and have written a worksheet where I can control and enter all of that data for the drawing set in one place, with easy overview over the whole thing. The one limitation is that I still have to edit one of the title blocks in order to enter the project data, but at least that only has to happen once...

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Just came here to add another voice to the chorus of 'WTF's about the new Title Block data entry; what was previously a simple matter of tabbing through a few fields is now a ridiculous undertaking of clicking and typing...and there doesn't seem to be any way around it.....it's almost enough to make me go back to my pre-sheet-border-tool symbols with attached records and a little script to pop up a window. Because 99% of the time, that's all that I need, not changing my grid spacing or border line thickness...

I'm sure the added functionality, once I learn it, may be useful on some projects, but it seems that NV didn't really learn from the disastrous first rollout of Resource Manager, which lacked a few major features from the ole Resource Browser....not to mention the lack of compatibility backwards, in this case.....

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After using it for a while - I would have to say that the concept of "Styles" feels forced when it comes to tileblocks.  I have 3 title blocks - Filing Set, Presentation, and SK.  Unlike Doors or windows - these stay the same from project to project.  The need to "manage" my styles is almost nill.  So now the titleblock is harder to use n exchange for a feature set that does not really add any value.

 

I would be less critical if the Issue and Revision system worked better - but it really doesn't.  It is a nice coat of paint that did not address the fundamental problem that the issue management is still backward.  Because there is no centralized management of issues and revisions - this becomes unmanageable instantly.  I have 120 sheets - each titleblock holding its own record of issues and revisions.  It is WAY too easy for corrupt data to get in there and totally mess up the automated reports.  Then to check - I need to page through 120 pages - one by one - to coordinate the issues. 

 

I was so hoping the new Titleblock Manager represented the shift to a centralized system where the Issue a resource of itself - and the info was pushed to titleblocks.... but no.   

 

This is one of those features that makes me wish there were a Jobs somewhere in the organization that could come in and say - "I do not care how much work you put into it - its bad - its terrible to use - we are not shipping it."  

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Tom – totally agree with you. Without being able to have a single overview of the issue data where one can also edit & amend it, the system is just too unwieldy and cumbersome. And this should be completely separate from the title block and data field setup. Again, we're now using our own sheet-specific record fields for our issue data so we can manage it all using a worksheet – see attached. Works well for us, but it's regrettable that we don't get something like this 'out of the box'.

 

Cheers,

Markus

drawing_set_manager_worksheet.png

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18 hours ago, Markus Barrera-Kolb said:

Tom – totally agree with you. Without being able to have a single overview of the issue data where one can also edit & amend it, the system is just too unwieldy and cumbersome. And this should be completely separate from the title block and data field setup. Again, we're now using our own sheet-specific record fields for our issue data so we can manage it all using a worksheet – see attached. Works well for us, but it's regrettable that we don't get something like this 'out of the box'.

 

Cheers,

Markus

drawing_set_manager_worksheet.png

What a beautiful worksheet!  Agree, it should be out of the box

 

Hans-Olav

Reykjavik

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On 2/28/2018 at 8:11 AM, Tom Klaber said:

 

This is one of those features that makes me wish there were a Jobs somewhere in the organization that could come in and say - "I do not care how much work you put into it - its bad - its terrible to use - we are not shipping it."  

 

THIS - absolutely this. Despite putting god-knows-how-many hours into making this 'new' tool, I'm probably going to spend a few hours in Vectorscript re-creating the old Title Block's popup from scratch, because that's all I really need (simple title blocks, which I used to do with a worksheet and some linked text fields).

 

Today alone I've found another problem with the 'new' version of this tool, including that when it 'updated' some title blocks from a drawing I'd started in 2017 it decided to abandon some of my previously manually-entered data in favor of what it 'thought' I wanted from the name of the sheet, with no prompt and no way to reverse it without reverting to the last save of the file.

 

Would it really have been that hard to at least leave the old version of the tool in place, in parallel with the new one, for compatibility?

 

At this point I'm *only* using 2018 because the folks with whom I collaborate on some projects are using it. 

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54 minutes ago, Dan Hoffman said:

Would it really have been that hard to at least leave the old version of the tool in place, in parallel with the new one, for compatibility?

 

THIS!!!!

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We had perfect functionality with the old customized title block. As mentioned here before, we could make dummy title blocks for specialist documents we wanted to include in our drawing list. Currently the only way to do this (to my knowledge) is to create several dummy sheets each with their own title blocks.

 

We also noticed odd behavior that changing a drawing number on the worksheet doesn't update it to the new sheet border unless we double click the sheet border. Now we don't know for sure if the worksheet changes propagate to the actual sheet borders unless we open each of them and check.

 

I've had trouble importing the sheet border style to other vwx files as well. I'm probably doing something wrong, but previously it was a simple copy-paste operation.

 

Editing the new sheet border is really confusing. People in the office have been a bit baffled about the reason for the change.

 

 

 

 

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I just can't succeed in "reseting" the numbering system of my issue data.

 

I'd like to "delete" that hidden "Title Block Issue Data-x" but can't find how to access it.

 

Could you help?

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15 hours ago, mattao said:

I just can't succeed in "reseting" the numbering system of my issue data.

 

I'd like to "delete" that hidden "Title Block Issue Data-x" but can't find how to access it.

 

Could you help?

Hello mattao,

 

You should have selected to delete the issue from the document, when deleting it, in order to delete it completely and not mess up the numbering.

However, I have written a script to delete your unused issues, that you could find in the attached file, that should do the job. You will have to select Manual and then again Auto for issue numbering in order to renumber Issue Number fields too.

 

Best Regards,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

DelIssuesScript.vwx

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On 8/15/2018 at 1:55 AM, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

Hello mattao,

 

You should have selected to delete the issue from the document, when deleting it, in order to delete it completely and not mess up the numbering.

However, I have written a script to delete your unused issues, that you could find in the attached file, that should do the job. You will have to select Manual and then again Auto for issue numbering in order to renumber Issue Number fields too.

 

Best Regards,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

DelIssuesScript.vwx

Thanks a lot

Really thanks

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I don't see why we can't have in place text editing.

 

Excel got it done years ago. Lots of other graphic programs do it too!

 

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One of the annoyances we find with the Titleblock Border object is that, in a multi-user situation, only one person can work on ANY titleblock.

 

It would be ideal if different 'parts' of the titleblock can be checked out by different people.

 

For example:

 

  • I ask STAFF A to work on making sure 'Current Plot Date' - 'Auto - Short' is turned on for all sheets (more on this issue later**)
     
  • And, I ask STAFF B to apply the latest 'Revision number' to ONLY the sheets we are issuing (more on this later too##)

 

Because Titleblock Border is one linked object across all sheets, I can't have STAFF A and STAFF B doing the above tasks simultaneously. 

 

Would be nice if the Titleblock Border is somehow broken into parts so different people can do different things on different sheets at the same time.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** Problem with Automatically applying Current Plot Dates to sheets upon placement.

 

Even though showing 'Current Plot Date' is set to show as 'Auto-Short Form' in my 'Titleblock Style', upon placing the titleblock on our sheet, the 'Current Plot Date' doesn't show up, and we have click into the PIO dialogue and manually turn that on for each titleblock we place in. This is very time consuming. 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

## Problem with applying the SAME information to MULTIPLE, SPECIFIC sheets

 

Currently, we can only apply desired information such as 'Revision' to only 'ALL' or 'ACTIVE' sheets. 

 

I would be much better for us to be able to apply information to a list of drawings from a form that shows all drawing. 

 

Finally, I really don't understand why navigation of the 'Title Block Manager' is sequential (via the 'next button), instead of with a drop-down list.

 

And why does clicking on the 'Titleblock manager' take you back to the first sheet, and not the current sheet you are working on.

 

 

 

@Markus Barrera-Kolb fantastic worksheet. We have spent hours trying to figure out how to pull out these kind of data from the Titleblock border but in the end settled with only showing the 'current plot date' and 'current revision'. 

 

 

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