lisag

Site Model Area / Resolution Limitations

9 posts in this topic

Hi there,

 

I have a survey file of an area of approx 3000 x 1500sqm, with 0.5m contour data (3d polys) and a few spot heights (3d loci). 

 

I have validated the data and Vectorworks detects no issues, but everytime I try to create a site model from this data Vectorworks appears to crash (presumably due to area / resolution?) I have extracted a smaller area of the same data as a test, and this generates a site model fine.

 

I don't want to simplify polys, as a.) I don't want to lose definition and b.) simplifying polys causes the contours to overlap and I will have to spend a lot of time re-validating this data. I also don't want to amend my minor contour interval (0.5) as again, I don't want to lose definition. The site model is required for construction information to set levels and calculate cut and fill, so needs to be as accurate as possible. 

 

Do I have any other options in terms of creating a model from this data? Is there a typical size of area that Vectorworks can handle as a site model? Does anyone have any experience of the length of time it typically takes to generate a large site model? I work for a Landscape Architecture practice and we are just starting to test the capabilities of Landmark for our work, so good to understand the limitations in advance.

 

I'm currently on Mac OS Sierra 10.12.6, Processor 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5, Memory 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3; Graphics NVIDIA GeForce GT 755M 1024 MB... running Vectorworks Landmark 2014. (I will put this in my footer for future use!)

 

Thanks,

Lisa

 

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Hi Lisa,

Though my first reaction was to simplify polygons, which you prefer not to do, I'm thinking of the Survey Input option to change 3D Polys to 3D Loci...wondering if the use of just points, and not processing the vertices and lines, would make enough of a difference in how it processes the 3D geometry.

 

Regards,

Eric

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4 hours ago, lisag said:

Hi there,

 

I have a survey file of an area of approx 3000 x 1500sqm, with 0.5m contour data (3d polys) and a few spot heights (3d loci). 

 

I have validated the data and Vectorworks detects no issues, but everytime I try to create a site model from this data Vectorworks appears to crash (presumably due to area / resolution?) I have extracted a smaller area of the same data as a test, and this generates a site model fine.

 

I don't want to simplify polys, as a.) I don't want to lose definition and b.) simplifying polys causes the contours to overlap and I will have to spend a lot of time re-validating this data. I also don't want to amend my minor contour interval (0.5) as again, I don't want to lose definition. The site model is required for construction information to set levels and calculate cut and fill, so needs to be as accurate as possible. 

 

Do I have any other options in terms of creating a model from this data? Is there a typical size of area that Vectorworks can handle as a site model? Does anyone have any experience of the length of time it typically takes to generate a large site model? I work for a Landscape Architecture practice and we are just starting to test the capabilities of Landmark for our work, so good to understand the limitations in advance.

 

I'm currently on Mac OS Sierra 10.12.6, Processor 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5, Memory 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3; Graphics NVIDIA GeForce GT 755M 1024 MB... running Vectorworks Landmark 2014. (I will put this in my footer for future use!)

 

Thanks,

Lisa

 

 

Can you ditch the 3d polys and just request a point file from your surveyor?  That seems to be faster and more accurate in the testing I have done thus far.

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37 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

 

Can you ditch the 3d polys and just request a point file from your surveyor?  That seems to be faster and more accurate in the testing I have done thus far.

 

Not in this instance unfortunately, but potentially in the future we can specify point files from our surveyors if this is faster and more accurate, so this is good info to know, thanks! 

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3 hours ago, Eric Gilbey, RLA ASLA said:

Hi Lisa,

Though my first reaction was to simplify polygons, which you prefer not to do, I'm thinking of the Survey Input option to change 3D Polys to 3D Loci...wondering if the use of just points, and not processing the vertices and lines, would make enough of a difference in how it processes the 3D geometry.

 

Regards,

Eric

 

Thanks for the idea Eric... seems to just be crashing doing it this way as well though :(

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OK...so it sounds like you are at the threshold of "either/or". Unless @techsupporthas a different suggestion. I'm not sure what else to suggest than simplification or removing every other minor interval contours, since the site model will interpolate them anyways. Perhaps the distance set in simplification could be as small as you can see a noticeable easing of articulation (ever so subtle) maybe the overlapping contours might not be as prolific and you can amend and convert to see if you have success? Using imperial, I've noticed that if 1 foot used as my distance is simplifying too drastically, I might try 3 inches (1/4 of the original simplification)...still get simplification but not as drastic. In metric terms, perhaps its by 10 or 20 cm? Don't know what the level of detail is...but in the effort you are attempting, it does not sound like you are left with too many choices in balancing the geometry/performance. Perhaps tech support may have other suggestions?

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15 hours ago, Eric Gilbey, RLA ASLA said:

OK...so it sounds like you are at the threshold of "either/or". Unless @techsupporthas a different suggestion. I'm not sure what else to suggest than simplification or removing every other minor interval contours, since the site model will interpolate them anyways. Perhaps the distance set in simplification could be as small as you can see a noticeable easing of articulation (ever so subtle) maybe the overlapping contours might not be as prolific and you can amend and convert to see if you have success? Using imperial, I've noticed that if 1 foot used as my distance is simplifying too drastically, I might try 3 inches (1/4 of the original simplification)...still get simplification but not as drastic. In metric terms, perhaps its by 10 or 20 cm? Don't know what the level of detail is...but in the effort you are attempting, it does not sound like you are left with too many choices in balancing the geometry/performance. Perhaps tech support may have other suggestions?

 

Thanks Eric. I actually left the data running overnight (after using 3D polys to 3D loci on the contours, but without simplifying,) and a model has generated this morning... though it is really heavy and I am struggling to do much with it! I will maybe try removing every other contour to get something more manageable, but I'm pleased that I can actually generate a model at least. Thanks for your help. (I'll certainly request point data from the outset from the topo surveyor next time!)

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1 hour ago, lisag said:

though it is really heavy and I am struggling to do much with it! 

 

I think it will not make much fun with such a DTM in the long run.

 

You should simplify the Polygons, if there is no chance to get other data.

I think in your case, you just ran out of memory when trying to simplify the Polys.

8 GB may be too less for such a large Model.

 

Do you have access to any other machine with at least 16 or more GB of Ram, or any person

who would do it on his machine ?

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You can also try to delete  every 2nd contour as you said.

In my cases such large Contour files where divided in square areas, which would allow to simplify

contours step by step. After simplification contours may no more fit together (?)

 

If your contours are connected,

not sure if Simplify works on selected objects only or if you need to temporarily separate things into classes.

 

And after Simplification you should run the validation again,

as some contours may overlap after.

Edited by zoomer
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