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Thomas Wagensommerer

Vectorworks User Interface Overhaul

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brown - purple - yellow - blue REALLY?

 

Looking at screenshots from VW 2018 makes me extremely sad. Seemingly Vectorworks is the last application adhering to the kindergarten color scheme.

 

A design application must not use colors in the interface!

 

Look at any self respecting or professional design application and please get rid of those colors in the interface.

 

 

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Edited by Thomas Wagensommerer
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15 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I'm also cautious of how steep a learning curve this might represent. I see this each autumn when each new iteration of VW allows for little trip-ups creep into the software, quick key changes are one example.

 

oh,

when I watch the last half year of Blender development how they mixed up their whole UI+UX,

including questioning and changing most of their Short Cut Keys,

between their 2.79b and the coming 2.80 release,

 

I also see all users concerned about the impact of all these changes but at the same time totally

enthusiastic about it, as it is getting so much better and more following standard App behaviors.

 

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Archicad colorlessness with v20 was quite extreme.

 

But now, 2 years later, are there really still that much complaints ?

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For me the colours are a visual cue and a monochrome look does not appeal to me at all.

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I also like (the right) colors.

I have another App with fresh colors,

used in a functional way to, e.g. separate 2D from 3D Tools and such.

 

But so far, VW was just colored.

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1 hour ago, Kevin McAllister said:

 

I'm very surprised to read this. What I like about the demo videos you've shared is almost entirely about how the interface you're proposing  *feels* and *functions*. 

Yes but what I am proposing are changes pertaining to the functioning of the UI. That's UX. What I was trying to say was, let's not confuse VWX functions ("How do I change the crop of a viewport") with UI functions ("How do I access the side pane widget while the RM is in a docked state").

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1 hour ago, Jim Wilson said:


I would think it very unlikely that we would dump a large number of changes all at once, for exactly this reason. Relearning new (and ideally, much better) UI elements over time is much less painful.

 

20 minutes ago, Stephan Moenninghoff said:

Yes but what I am proposing are changes pertaining to the functioning of the UI. That's UX. What I was trying to say was, let's not confuse VWX functions ("How do I change the crop of a viewport") with UI functions ("How do I access the side pane widget while the RM is in a docked state").

 

This is essentially why I think it needs to be clear what the UI/UX is and what it affects. Each user may have a different interpretation.

 

I personally think inconsistencies across the board (UI/UX/VWX functions) are VW's main weakness. I don't want dramatic changes but I do want unification. For example, I want to be able to use Return/Enter to exit every dialog box and I want tab to move to the next field (these don't work for Callouts and the new Title Block Border dialog). It could just be an option I can choose as a user, but I want consistency. To fix some of the existing inconsistencies will require modifying the UI, UX and VWX functions all at the same time.

 

A great example of an area that strayed is the new Sculptor for Site Models. Why didn't it adopt a form of the "Grabber" tool used in the Subdivision tool? I want a program that uses the same interface to move a point in 3d everywhere you can potentially move a point in 3d. I also want the method to be a modern method (eg. not what happens now when you use the Reshape Tool on a NURBS curve) like is available in almost every other piece of 3d software. I see this as UI / UX issue. 

 

And to Jim's point, relearning over time is much less painful, but giving up on VW and moving to different software is still relearning, so moving too slowly to improve things isn't necessarily the way to retain users 🙂

 

Kevin

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I agree Kevin, & I might add that like everything in Architecture Use drives everything. For example the Royal Ontario Museum added the  Carbuncle    Chrystal entrance & abandoned the old main entrance & made it chair storage. After a few years of use the old entrance has been quietly refurbished and users get to ignore the Carbuncle Chrystal if they choose - & they do.

So file all of this under "be careful what you wish for".  I thought that when I saw the Multi View Panes this would be a vast improvement to my workflow. At first it was a huge pain (pun intended) until I customized my hot key back to unconstrained Dims. I use Multi View, sometimes; but it's not been the huge improvement I thought it would be. Would I go back to not having the option? I might if meant that I could have things like bringing back hot keys to align walls when they are replaced, or even little things like fixing the screen lag with rotated objects.  

Edited by Jim Smith
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32 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I agree Kevin, & I might add that like everything in Architecture Use drives everything. For example the Royal Ontario Museum added the  Carbuncle    Chrystal entrance & abandoned the old main entrance & made it chair storage. After a few years of use the old entrance has been quietly refurbished and users get to ignore the Carbuncle Chrystal if they choose - & they do.

So file all of this under "be careful what you wish for".  I thought that when I saw the Multi View Panes this would be a vast improvement to my workflow. At first it was a huge pain (pun intended) until I customized my hot key back to unconstrained Dims. I use Multi View, sometimes; but it's not been the huge improvement I thought it would be. Would I go back to not having the option? I might if meant that I could have things like bringing back hot keys to align walls when they are replaced, or even little things like fixing the screen lag with rotated objects.  

 

I used Google images to see what 'carbuncle' means,  such a bad idea in hindsight🤮

But learned a new English word today 😂

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19 minutes ago, Bas Vellekoop said:

 

I used Google images to see what 'carbuncle' means,  such a bad idea in hindsight🤮

But learned a new English word today 😂

Yep, once seen, a carbuncle can never be unseen, much like the Crystal Entrance.

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On 11/27/2018 at 1:58 PM, Jim Smith said:

I agree Kevin, & I might add that like everything in Architecture Use drives everything. For example the Royal Ontario Museum added the  Carbuncle    Chrystal entrance & abandoned the old main entrance & made it chair storage. After a few years of use the old entrance has been quietly refurbished and users get to ignore the Carbuncle Chrystal if they choose - & they do.

I never liked the Chrystal entry.  I so often find that modern finishes just can't compete with the ways things had been done in the past.  The original entry is so much more grander than the new one.  You feel like you're going into a museum.  Anyways I digress.

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On 11/8/2018 at 7:45 PM, Stephan Moenninghoff said:

I made another little video. There were some comments and suggestions about the OIP earlier in this thread which I thought about. (There's more to come. I have been thinking about why the Attributes Palette is not part of the OIP and I think I must be overlooking something...) and I received some personal messages about how some of the things I proposed did not come across in an understandable way. Goes to show that everyone, including myself, struggles with that elusive chasm between sender and receiver. 

As always, here my little disclaimer: I haven't the slightest clue if any of what I am proposing makes any sense to anyone else or if it is even possible to implement in Vectorworks. Still, please upvote this if you haven't already (the little green triangle, right at the top...) 🙂 
PS - there's a little bonus extra at the end. Wait for it...

 

 

 

Dear all,

 

I have any ideas what you have on schedule for next year. 2019 Version is (finally) pretty stable after sp3, but honestly until now if the user wanted to use space or renderworks.. for lucky this nightmare is finish.

 

I want to reactivate this topic about the amazing-beatiful-gorgeous Stephan Mönninghof's work. First of all: congratulation @Stephan Moenninghoff, one more time.

I love your style.

 

I see on youtube trailers here that you maked some test from 2018 version.

So i really hope that for 2020 you can really offer a product with this amazing interface. For this reasons:

 

1) Is beautiful. Is attractive: for new and old users. VW users can say that they use a beautiful software to create beautifuls drawings.

So: this interface is exactly what a VW need: the final puzzle's piece.

 

2) Is not a "dark painting UI". Somewhere on youtube i have seen several screenshot with a "dark interface". It looks like VW was something like a simply color invertion.

Don't do this mistake: Stephan user's is 1000 times more good looking, different and respectful for the Vectorworks Phylosophy.

 

3) Some old users should switch automatically on old interface, specially for first times, with a dedicated "switch button".. so no problem with old users.

 

4) For what i can see, some problem are fixed: for example Resource Browser allow users to activate more resource type in one time.

 

Please don't lose this chance to give to public a great opportunity to increase the workflow and the time's quality users spend every time to create drawings.

 

In my opinion, this interface could be also an opportunity to have more people which approaches to Vectorworks.

 

 

Have a good work.

 

 

Z

 

 

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Most likely the first thing we will see is simply compatibility with Windows and Mac Dark Modes (I think on Windows its called Theme) which just has our UI take on the colors dictated by the OS. We don't consider this a UI revamp at all, just bringing us into line with current systems. 

There will be some UI improvement in 2020 but not a full dramatic rework to the level we have discussed here. We do want to dramatically improve the UI, but it is highly unlikely it will be all at once. It is looking like features like Search will be expanded and added to more useful areas, and reworks like the Resource Browser > Resource Manager will happen over time. 

I'd like a huge UI Christmas morning myself, but it is too massive of a project to be undertaken in a single year, and too much change at once to be something that won't cause confusion.

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Posted (edited)
On 11/28/2018 at 3:37 AM, Stephan Moenninghoff said:

Interesting poll about colour in the Archicad UI after it was made all white. Yeah, one needs to be careful, users are fickle... 🙂514701664_Bildschirmfoto2018-11-27um17_36_06.thumb.png.bc0ab922f8c03f21c7a1674869211895.png

 

LOL...Fickle users

Not sure blaming the customer further for a designer overstepping the mark and annoying the people who pay the bills is the best plan.

 

I do understand as the screen has gotten larger and DPI denser then less colour variation is needed to make things recognizable. Still to think you can just strip it bear and rely just on shape in a programme as complex as CAD / BIM is pure hubris. 

 

 

 

Edited by Matt Overton
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On 3/26/2019 at 2:30 PM, Jim Wilson said:

Most likely the first thing we will see is simply compatibility with Windows and Mac Dark Modes (I think on Windows its called Theme) which just has our UI take on the colors dictated by the OS. We don't consider this a UI revamp at all, just bringing us into line with current systems. 

There will be some UI improvement in 2020 but not a full dramatic rework to the level we have discussed here. We do want to dramatically improve the UI, but it is highly unlikely it will be all at once. It is looking like features like Search will be expanded and added to more useful areas, and reworks like the Resource Browser > Resource Manager will happen over time. 

I'd like a huge UI Christmas morning myself, but it is too massive of a project to be undertaken in a single year, and too much change at once to be something that won't cause confusion.

 

Jim,

 

Every time we are in front a different OS, different software or simply in front a new UI, that is obviously a little shock for users.

 

It can generate 2 reaction's type: to feeling lost or to feeling interested to discover a new languages.

 

The second way i think is typical for beta-tester or for people can see the new ways like opportunities, an it must be a deep help for the "first way" user to get easier the learning way.

 

In my opinion a third way don't exist: if the new UI will switch with little steps it will generate always an old aspect with some new improvements, and that isn't what VW need for this issue.

 

I use VW from 10 years (i was 24) and except for the Recourse Browser i didn't see any deep changes in UI. But i saw tons of new functionality that starting to be too thigt and complicated for this interface.

 

And when I saw the Stephan's new interface i had no doubt for her potentiality. It was really like oxygen.

 

On the other side i see that VW go quickly further for cloud services, new graphic tools that needs month of tests to get stable. So they could be also considered "confusion danger" for new user. But they aren't.

 

Allowing the betatester to use -for a entire year for example- a total New UI can create the best comparision between engeneers and "deep VW users" to be sure to follow the VW philosophy and than help all the users for 2021 to have less confution for the UI switching.

 

In extremely case they could returd on "old UI" whit a dedicated button. But a radical UI switching is necessary.

 

Z

 

 

 

 

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