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Tom Klaber

Twinmotion Plugin + Sync

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@rDesignIt's a workaround.  You put your image on a dome that encircles the model so you can see it.  But it is not luminous in the way an HDRI can illuminate a scene.  That still comes from the background.  

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I thought I recalled an announcement somewhere that VW and Twinmotion are working on a plug-in where you could work in VW and immediately see your work in TM.

 

I also thought I recalled TM saying raytracing was coming as well. But that may have been someone higher up speaking and making the programmers think "yikes!". Seems like it should be an option even if it means longer rendering times to achieve that level.

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@chaz Juan said "Twinmotion: The development is happening during Q1, stay tuned for more updates!" The post is attached. Hopefully it'll all come to fruition!

 

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1 hour ago, chaz said:

 

I also thought I recalled TM saying raytracing was coming as well. But that may have been someone higher up speaking and making the programmers think "yikes!". Seems like it should be an option even if it means longer rendering times to achieve that level.


This ARTICLE says that Epic Games (Twinmotion) is working with Graphisoft (ArchiCAD) on developing the next-gen of Twinmotion to include real-time raytracing: Hopefully Vw is also working with Epic / Twinmotion toward the same goal.

 

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I would welcome TW as lumion style interactive real time window for working within VW.  After investigating the Unreal engine for a bit, it seems that TM is really just a very light version of Unreal, geared towards architecture.  

And it does a fantastic job for exteriors, placing entourage and exporting video, hands down.  I realize how important that is for lots of users.  Just not for entertainment users.  

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36 minutes ago, grant_PD said:

Just not for entertainment users.  


slightly off topic. There is a visualizer out there that combines an entertainment vizualizer with a scenic / architectural visualizer.  The scenic is not as far developed as Lumion etc. But it’s to my knowledge the first visualizer that bring these to world’s together and is very much worth checking it out. 
 

it’s called Depence2 from Syncronorm. I tried the demo and was amazed. I wonder which engine they used for it? 
 

I definitely  believe that (real-time) GPU rendering is the future. 

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On 2/17/2020 at 1:21 PM, zoomer said:

Unreal Engine now has Raytracing (Windows only) beside their usual fakeing

 

 

Assuming that's due to Apple's limitation of AMD GPU's on the Mac, so until AMD has their own version of RTX... 

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10 hours ago, grant_PD said:

I would welcome TW as lumion style interactive real time window for working within VW.  After investigating the Unreal engine for a bit, it seems that TM is really just a very light version of Unreal, geared towards architecture.  

And it does a fantastic job for exteriors, placing entourage and exporting video, hands down.  I realize how important that is for lots of users.  Just not for entertainment users.  

 

I worked at a design team that used Unreal Studio (on Windows), and your assumption is fairly accurate. While Unreal Studio is far more powerful, it requires infinitely more tinkering to output the final product. That's where TM comes in by building a front end GUI, specifically for us (not gamers). While our renders weren't as polished as Cinema, they were literal screenshots.

 

Also, to clarify, someone above used the term "baked". Real time does not = baked. Baking lights into a scene is more akin to what we've experienced in Cinema/Renderworks. That's also why one of the toughest things to render in Unreal/TM is atmosphere: smoke, fog, beams (of light). It always has that uncanny valley.

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11 hours ago, Mark Aceto said:

Assuming that's due to Apple's limitation of AMD GPU's on the Mac, so until AMD has their own version of RTX... 

 

Game Engines like Unreal can afford support for Metal.

So I see not much  problems with Unreal on macOS/AMD in the future.

 

Apple support may just have lower priority.

 

 

AMD will support Raytracing Accelleration soon.

Not sure if AMD will need or offer any special GPU cores, similar to RTX cores

on NVidia. RTX also runs on NVidia GPUs that have no RTX cores.

If such special raytrace cores are really faster than standard cuda cores for

that specific task - than fine.

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, zoomer said:

 

Game Engines like Unreal can afford support for Metal.

So I see not much  problems with Unreal on macOS/AMD in the future.

 

Apple support may just have lower priority.

 

 

AMD will support Raytracing Accelleration soon.

Not sure if AMD will need or offer any special GPU cores, similar to RTX cores

on NVidia. RTX also runs on NVidia GPUs that have no RTX cores.

If such special raytrace cores are really faster than standard cuda cores for

that specific task - than fine.

 

 

 

 

 

My point is that Apple only supports AMD (after High Sierra), and AMD does not offer realtime ray-tracing. When asked about it in mid-2019, AMD pretty much dodged the question, so it sounds like we could expect realtime ray-tracing in 2021 (3 years after NVIDIA introduced it).

 

Edited by Mark Aceto

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Depends on what realtime Raytracing is.

Twinmotion or Blender Eevee do "screen space" Reflections/GI only to stay realtime.

(a mirror won't show anything object behind the camera and such things)

 

Blender Cycles is a real GPU renderer, which does real Raytracing and GI like VW RW.

Still a GPU renderer with raytracing and faster than RW, but far from realtime.

 

So far AMD had not the fastest GPUs overall (RTX 2080 TI) but attractive midrange cards.

That may change soon ("big Navi"), beside that Nvidia's next generation is expected

to be pretty faster again too.

Not very important for Apple users as AMD is their only choice.

 

AMD has a real GPU Renderer since years which is AMD Pro Render.

But that is a real Raytracing engine like Cycles, VRAY RT, Octane, ..... so not for real time usage.

 

 

For Real Time Nvidia offers an OpenCL, Vulkan, Cuda, RTX and Optix API.

With these anyone can develop a Realtime Engine, using any or all of these.

AMD offers all open standards but of course no proprietary Nvidia stuff like Optix, Cuda and RTX.

Nvidia RTX API is necessary to use their RTX cores at all.

If AMD will really offer another kind of special Cores for RT like Nvidia, that needs again a new special

API to access these cores, isn't very important. Maybe they will do that raytracing compute work

just do on regular cores.

The only problem for AMD users would be if all developers would support only Nvidias proprietary stuff

(no matter if that would be RTX or just Cuda) and nothing else (unlikely), or that Nvidia can offer

much faster and more effective GPUs forever (let's see).

 

 

But current GPUs are still years away from offering enough power for real Raytracing in Realtime.

So currently Games with RTX can only choose to use one single raytrace feature - either GI or Reflections.

And even though, activating that single RTX feature means 40 FPS instead of 150 FPS without.

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23 hours ago, zoomer said:

Depends on what realtime Raytracing is.

Twinmotion or Blender Eevee do "screen space" Reflections/GI only to stay realtime.

(a mirror won't show anything object behind the camera and such things)

 

Blender Cycles is a real GPU renderer, which does real Raytracing and GI like VW RW.

Still a GPU renderer with raytracing and faster than RW, but far from realtime.

 

So far AMD had not the fastest GPUs overall (RTX 2080 TI) but attractive midrange cards.

That may change soon ("big Navi"), beside that Nvidia's next generation is expected

to be pretty faster again too.

Not very important for Apple users as AMD is their only choice.

 

AMD has a real GPU Renderer since years which is AMD Pro Render.

But that is a real Raytracing engine like Cycles, VRAY RT, Octane, ..... so not for real time usage.

 

 

For Real Time Nvidia offers an OpenCL, Vulkan, Cuda, RTX and Optix API.

With these anyone can develop a Realtime Engine, using any or all of these.

AMD offers all open standards but of course no proprietary Nvidia stuff like Optix, Cuda and RTX.

Nvidia RTX API is necessary to use their RTX cores at all.

If AMD will really offer another kind of special Cores for RT like Nvidia, that needs again a new special

API to access these cores, isn't very important. Maybe they will do that raytracing compute work

just do on regular cores.

The only problem for AMD users would be if all developers would support only Nvidias proprietary stuff

(no matter if that would be RTX or just Cuda) and nothing else (unlikely), or that Nvidia can offer

much faster and more effective GPUs forever (let's see).

 

 

But current GPUs are still years away from offering enough power for real Raytracing in Realtime.

So currently Games with RTX can only choose to use one single raytrace feature - either GI or Reflections.

And even though, activating that single RTX feature means 40 FPS instead of 150 FPS without.

 

I'm basically comparing RTX 2080 Ti to whatever AMD plans to offer in the next year or so for those of us stumbling around in Apple's walled garden.

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May take some time.

If you think of how long Apple needs to put their proprietary cooler

on a (soon outdated) 5700X for the Mac Pro.

 

As far as AMD concerned, the latest rumors talk about AMD's 6xxx

series bringing "hardware" Raytracing and being at least as fast as

a 2080Ti. Should arrive in early "summer".

 

And I expect that the Nvidia 3xxxx counter, some months later, will

bring the performance crown back again to Nvidia.

 

So it should be (another) exciting year for GPUs and CPUs.

At least on the PC side.

 

 

Far more important for me are the AMD mobile CPUs names mentioned

in latest Catalina Beta code.

Very illusionary, but if I imagine a coming AMD Mac Pro version with a

TRX40 Socket that may allow to upgrade over the next 2-3 Threadripper

generations,

I may be finally willing to pay the extra 4.5 k grill holes Apple tax for

a Mac Pro. Maybe.

Or better a new standard iMac with 3950X option ....

Edited by zoomer

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Yeah, playing with it now. Opened an old file and the lighting is totally changed, as in I need to reset everything but now my lights don't seem to be working. As I'm almost always doing interiors with no exterior light, I always turn the sun off and depend on lights with some ambient lighting. Not sure how that's going to work in the new version, looks like ambient may be dependent on sunlight. 

 

I'm going to try a totally new file.

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Posted (edited)

wow, they're letting us as early adopters download the initial 2020 version free, happy dayz 😁👍

Edited by milezee

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No Vectorworks live link.  Pretty disappointing and I'd gladly pay $250 per station to get it.  

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4 minutes ago, rb-arch said:

No Vectorworks live link.  Pretty disappointing and I'd gladly pay $250 per station to get it.  

 

In this other thread linked below, @JuanP said that the Twinmotion link is “ready” for the Vw2021 release cycle.

 

 

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is it just the Trial version can use ? have installed the other 2020version and it doesn't load correctly ? 

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Posted (edited)

Mine is loading correctly.

 

I wonder if there is any way to bring back the old people. The new version (ok, this is going to make me sound old, which I guess I am) seems like everyone is young hipsters. Harris now has a high ponytail. There were only a handful of characters appropriate for my work and now it seems there are very few that I might be able to use. And I'm still struggling with the lighting.

Edited by chaz

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10 minutes ago, rDesign said:

 

In this other thread linked below, @JuanP said that the Twinmotion link is “ready” for the Vw2021 release cycle.

 

 

OK, that's encouraging but it also mixes in with some other thoughts that I have about these subscription updates.  I'll save those for another thread, but so far TM seems smoother and faster and better.  We're early adopters so no $$ yet.

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No, I received an email from unreal and followed the instructions for downloading:

 

To install your copy of Twinmotion 2020, open the Epic Games launcher and log in with your Epic account. Select the Twinmotion page in the Unreal Engine tab, and click Install above Twinmotion 2020.1. Follow the prompts to complete the process.

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Posted (edited)

@chaz I didn't get an email, but when I opened the Epic Games launcher I got a pop up window with an an invite to install 2020 as an early adopter , might have to uninstall and start again as its not loading correctly 😔

 

ah, I forgot to click 'verify' seems to load up fine now 👍

Edited by milezee

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