Jump to content
  • 17
Christiaan

Custom ID tags for windows and doors

Question

We'd like custom ID tags for windows and doors.

 

One of the main reasons we need them is to display the fire-rating of doors on floor plans for instance.  

 

We used to use symbols for doors, including our own custom ID tag (linked to a record format), and this included a fire-rating field. But now that we're using the Door Object we don't have this capability. The fire-rating is there in the door data but we're unable to display it as part of the ID tag, because ID tags are limited to ID Prefix, ID Label and ID Suffix.

 

You might say that we could use the ID Suffix field to show the fire-rating but we already use this field to identify a door type (and the fire-rating is already has its own field). So a typical door number for us would look like this: D-09-B (D=door, 09=door number, and B=type)

 

WinDoor, for instance, has custom ID tags, which are symbols the user can edit. They also have a second field that you can use for any piece of data you like, such as the fire-rating.

 

door-id.jpg.4e19e56184beb50741129189f4102f86.jpg

598828a573c3c_WinDoorIDSymbols.jpg.4526d0411e85c56297b9b62d70f475aa.jpg

 

59882aa79ce72_ScreenShot2017-08-07at09_53_33.png.8111ace1581a4f15e46203fc6da257fb.png

Edited by Christiaan
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Recommended Posts

  • 0

I agree!

 

Door tag is a very important, fundamental tool for an architect!

 

The local standard over here is to show the following information in the door tag:

-Door ID number

-Door size in 10cm modules, eg. 9x21M

-handedness indicator

-Door type descriptor (steel door, glass door, sliding door etc)

-Fire rating

-Acoustic rating

 

Trying to display these in one line that the standard door tag allows becomes a mess.

 

I've tried to make a custom ID tag a couple of times, but these attempts were unsuccessful. I've thought I've followed the instructions but I can't get it to work.

 

As I wrote somewhere earlier, all door data is there, any custom record data is there, one would think it's easy to connect these with a customized tag.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

BTW, is there a reason why Windoor is not sold in Europe? or NA?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
14 hours ago, JMR said:

BTW, is there a reason why Windoor is not sold in Europe? or NA?

 

OzCAD is a small company that just wants to concentrate on making a good product for Aus/NZ I think.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On 10/1/2017 at 9:10 PM, JMR said:

I agree!

 

Door tag is a very important, fundamental tool for an architect!

 

The local standard over here is to show the following information in the door tag:

In my country pretty much the same so VW's door object is totally useless as are most of the objects. I wonder why any architect would buy VW here and actually almost no-one does. 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Well I'm very happy with VW, just not the doors and windows. I like the freedom and the plentiful controls VW provides.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

This thread could be merged with this one. Will the votes be merged?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
Posted (edited)

I've finally got round to assessing the updated/new Data Tag tool as a solution to this feature request and I'm not convinced. While it is possible to use in this way it has a couple of important drawbacks:

  1. Using Data Tag objects to tag windows and doors requires a lot of manual work, as the user has to manually place each Data Tag as a separate object, whereas the in-built ID tags are already in place.
  2. You can't offset a Data Tag object from the door or window without being made to use a leader line.

The later of these two drawbacks could be easily solved at Vectorworks' end but the first one is an inherent problem of using a separate object. Window and Door objects are special cases and already have ID tags built into them. It's these in-built ID tags I would like to be able to customise. Effectively we just need the in-built ID Tags harmonised with the separate Data Tag tool

 

@Matt Panzer

Edited by Christiaan
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
3 hours ago, Christiaan said:

I've finally got round to assessing the updated/new Data Tag tool as a solution to this feature request and I'm not convinced. While it is possible to use in this way it has a couple of important drawbacks:

  1. Using Data Tag objects to tag windows and doors requires a lot of manual work, as the user has to manually place each Data Tag as a separate object, whereas the in-built ID tags are already in place.
  2. You can't offset a Data Tag object from the door or window without being made to use a leader line.

The later of these two drawbacks could be easily solved at Vectorworks' end but the first one is an inherent problem of using a separate object. Window and Door objects are special cases and already have ID tags built into them. It's these in-built ID tags I would like to be able to customise. Effectively we just need the in-built ID Tags harmonised with the separate Data Tag tool

 

@Matt Panzer

 

Hi Christiaan,

My opinion is that having the tag contained within the plug-in object is not the right approach moving forward. There are too many drawbacks and limitations trying to have individual plug-ins with self-contained tags and many of those problems may never be overcome with that system. While I do understand the current drawbacks in using Data Tags, I believe it would be better to make improvements to them to help eliminate these issues. However, one improvement could be to have a Data Tag automatically inserted along with the door or window (at a given offset).

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
Posted (edited)

Hey Matt, thanks for the comment. I thought you might say that, in which case, yes, if we could have the Data Tag inserted automatically (based on a Door/Window tag setting) and if we could offset them (without the need for a leader line) and manually drag instances around (and rotate them) then that would solve the problem imo.

Edited by Christiaan

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hi christiaan, I have started to add my tags to the annotation part of the viewport. I find that it can read all the information that I want and it is where I want for that viewport. it doesn't matter that it is not on the same layer as the door, any updates to the door automatically go to the Data Tag. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

If one places data tags in the annotation space of the viewport, then one cannot see them while working on the plan in DL mode?

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
On 7/13/2019 at 11:52 PM, Jonathan Pickup said:

Hi christiaan, I have started to add my tags to the annotation part of the viewport. I find that it can read all the information that I want and it is where I want for that viewport. it doesn't matter that it is not on the same layer as the door, any updates to the door automatically go to the Data Tag. 

 

Thanks Jonathan, didn't know you could do that. But why not use Classes?

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
Posted (edited)

we need to be able to scale the data tag tool, and / or provide text styles to them (text styles can be different sizes depending on how they are used as well). I'm trying to integrate them everywhere for annotation.

 

Other than that, I have no issues with the data tag tool, it fixes so many issues!

 

speaking of which, i think i just found a bug ) Ill post it on another post, but if tags are used in worksheets and the id or a record is modified in the worksheet, the tags (that display the custom id or record) don't auto update the custom ID in the viewport unless they are moved or edited directly. In otherwords, the tags know they are updated, they just don't update their appearance. This is specific to custom records only i believe.

Edited by Samuel Derenboim
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hey @Jonathan Pickup 

So we now attempt to have as much notation as possible in the Annotation Layer. The only issue I see as a problem is if the door numbers are to be illustrated in another location, one must have to remember to transfer this information in Annotation Layer AND remember to copy the information if it is ever amended.

For example today we have had to issue a Change Order that impacts three doors & these doors all show up on the main plan as well as individual details & elevations. If I use the Annotation Layer I'd have to add this copy & paste to 3 detail plans as well as my interior elevations. Or am I missing something?

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Hey @Jonathan Pickup 

So we now attempt to have as much notation as possible in the Annotation Layer. The only issue I see as a problem is if the door numbers are to be illustrated in another location, one must have to remember to transfer this information in Annotation Layer AND remember to copy the information if it is ever amended.

For example today we have had to issue a Change Order that impacts three doors & these doors all show up on the main plan as well as individual details & elevations. If I use the Annotation Layer I'd have to add this copy & paste to 3 detail plans as well as my interior elevations. Or am I missing something?

 

Great point @Jim Smith. It might still be best practice to ID doors and windows directly on the model (DL). Same goes for anything else that is meant to display in many viewports. Advanced viewport settings can negotiate this fairly well. I hate to introduce extra classes, but perhaps in a squeeze, you can turn off the ID class from the design layer in order to add an alternative annotative layer ID class.

 

It would be great if there were a similar function to "section line instances" built into Data Tags, which would allow you to simply "turn on" an independently controllable group of tags per viewport after the initial tag creation.

Edited by mgries

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
Posted (edited)

I really dislike putting information on the the Annotations Layer when it might be needed in another viewport. In principle I only use the Annotations Layer for information peculiar to a particular viewport, e.g. additional line work, masking, viewport labels, etc. Everything else can go on design layers and be Classed.

 

So Data Tags should be scalable.

Edited by Christiaan
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Agree 100% @Christiaan anything that's text related that should be placed on a Design Layer should be scaleable.   Your thread  is related to a wish list item I posted a few years back about Grid Bubbles.

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
 
 
 
 
On 8/14/2019 at 5:08 AM, Jim Smith said:

Hey @Jonathan Pickup 

So we now attempt to have as much notation as possible in the Annotation Layer. The only issue I see as a problem is if the door numbers are to be illustrated in another location, one must have to remember to transfer this information in Annotation Layer AND remember to copy the information if it is ever amended.

 

the beauty of the data tag is that the tag is connected to the object on the design layer, so when you update the design layer, the tag updates automatically. 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

That's handy to know Jonathan. Mind you if somebody adds a door they need to remember to head over to the viewport and add the tag. Same issue with Class of course (if they have it turned off) but one less level of opaqueness.

 

Would be interesting see if auto-generating tags when placing a door/window (as Matt alludes to above) could be made to work with Viewports, but I don't think I'd want them to work that way. If auto-generated I'd rather it was done in front of the user rather than out of view on a viewport somewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
 
 
 
 
On 8/19/2019 at 9:37 PM, Christiaan said:

That's handy to know Jonathan. Mind you if somebody adds a door they need to remember to head over to the viewport and add the tag. Same issue with Class of course (if they have it turned off) but one less level of opaqueness.

the tags still work even after you turn off the class of the original objects. 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Sure, but they're not visible when you're working on the design layer, and therefore one could easily forget to add a tag when adding a door/window.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I agree, having them visible in the Design Layer is essential for being able to check/update as you are working.

 

Having used Vectorworks in Australia before moving to the UK, I never had any issues with the custom tag tools in Windoor, surely we should be able to implement some of the functionality of this? 

I think ID tag as separate to the door/window is a little clunky.

Even if autogenerated there is still the possibility of the ID tag being deleted/disassociated from the object without people realising

Having the symbol controlled by the door or window style is also essential - e.g different tags for existing, fire-rated etc.

If the window/door tag had a "level of detail" type control where you could set the scale and offset depending on the VP scale I could see that working.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Answer this question...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


 

7150 Riverwood Drive, Columbia, Maryland 21046, USA   |   Contact Us:   410-290-5114

 

© 2018 Vectorworks, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Vectorworks, Inc. is part of the Nemetschek Group.

×
×
  • Create New...