Bug Submit Page - Overview of Experience

[Kevin McAllister]

Further to the ongoing dialog about bug submission, I am following up on submitting my own possible bugs that I have posted as threads in the forum. I submitted this as my first bug using the online Bug Submit form posted by Jim in another thread. (Not my first bug ever  , I've made tons of submissions in the past, just not with the form for a while.) - 

Filing the bug took 9 minutes in total. Here are my interim wishes for improvements to the current bug submit process -

 

- I'd like a way to cut/paste the last six digits of my serial number into the form.

- Note that the current form doesn't include Mac OS X 10.12 at all so I cannot submit my correct operating system information (I am currently running Mac OSX 10.12.6).

- I'd love a dropdown for choosing my version of Vectorworks and a second dropdown for choosing my SP.

- I wish that bug submission copied me with my submission via email so I have my own record of submitting. One of the big advantages of the forum is the ability to search after the fact if I ever need to follow up.

Edit - one additional wish, it would be great if there was a way to submit multiple bugs in one sitting without having to re-enter all the basic information again each time.

 

Overall it wasn't too bad, though being able to copy/paste the steps to recreate my bug from my forum post made that part of the process easier.

 

Thank you!

 

Kevin

Edited August 3, 2017 by Kevin McAllister
Added one wish, noted in the list.

[Kevin McAllister]

Just a quick followup post. For the submission I detailed above I received a personalized email reply to tell me that my bug had been replicated and submitted. It came from a support specialist at "Tech Support Premium" which I guess means the form submission somehow knows I'm a Service Select subscriber? The email also contained the submission email that the form generates at the bottom, which was interesting to see.

 

This is an unexpected development that I really like 

 

Kevin

 

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Kevin McAllister

[Kevin McAllister]

Yesterday I submitted a second bug. This one required submitting a file and I also wanted to submit supporting screen shots. Here are a couple more wishes from that experience -

 

- file submission should be integrated like making a post on this forum. The separate form requires me to enter my information yet again. It also required me to turn of the pop-blocking features of Safari to submit which I consider unacceptable.

- there is no easy way to submit supporting screen shots. I would have had to integrate them with notes into my VW file for submission. In the end I left them out. It should be as easy as it is on this forum, where I can integrate images into text for easy explanations.

 

Edit: One other thing of note. When Tech Support downloads your file you get a receipt email from something called "DropSend" which I guess is the file service they are using to transfer files. I like receiving confirmation but because it isn't NV branded it seems like its spam.

 

Kevin

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by Kevin McAllister

[Kevin McAllister]

Some other issues with Bug Submit -

 

- if you think of something to add to your submission after the fact, there's no easy way to do it. You don't have a reference/tracking number or a forum thread you can add to.

- this scenario means many bugs go unreported - example. This again makes me wish for an open bug list (existing wish - Open Bug List - please up vote) so there's some way to make sure things are getting reported.

- and again a wish for a 3rd party way to submit bugs that aren't mine but need to be reported. Something like this - Flag Forum Post

 

Kevin

[Benson Shaw]

All good analysis, Kevin! Thanks for keeping this going.

 

Here are some comments, wish extensions on the bug submit topic.  Not much new, but I'm adding my voice as momentum:

 

• Text based submittals

Bug submit with text description of problem and process can be very tedious and unspecific for both the reporter and the reviewer.  Screen shots and screen capture video with narration can be an excellent extension of the text submittals, or even replacement.

 

• Support ticket management and security.

I respect that any entity receiving files (eg the bug review team, or the community board) has to track & archive the whole submittal/response communication, and have security in place.  Security screening for malware is needed for submittals of screen shots, videos, links to files in cloud (Dropbox, xxxxDrive, personal websites, etc), video channels (youTube, Vimeo, etc), even the example vwx files.  External files seem to be malware free on this forum, and the archive/history is, ummmm, the thread.  

 

• Crowd review

Lots of potential bugs reported via Bug Submit are probably false negatives, eg user error, working as designed, temporary glitch, not reproducable, etc. That's extra work or wasted time for the review team. Loads of possible bugs are posted for review on the community board. Members are quite willing to test, comment, reproduce/verify the problem, or even solve the problem, or confirm bug status. This crowd experience and testing can eliminate many false bugs and better define the actual ones. The crowd might even have ability to identify similar or repeat issues and tag them as similar or (moderator) combine threads.

 

•Bug submit frequent fliers

Info in bug submittal forms should be saved so frequent submitters can skip the repetition items. Could a ping process or log in be implemented to auto fill ID, Operating system, vwx version/type, etc?  I understand that an easy bug submit process could become an avenue for irate consumers to vent and protest, but a difficult submittal process can also discourage legit submittals.

 

•Bug status reports

This is an important step for consumer confidence in the submittal process and more generalized confidence in the software and the company.  Was my submittal accepted? Reviewed? Is it a bug? Solutions coming in my lifetime? Workarounds? Apologies? Prizes?

 

The above issues and processes have parallels in the standard posts & discussions in this community board.  I definitely support moving the bug submit process closer to the format of this forum or, better, transferring it right into this community board. Try a test? Run the current system and a forum version in parallel, then evaluate after a few months. Implement the test with some protocols and moderators for community board testing/rating and status updates. Eg if several (3? 10?) posters review and confirm the problem, the thread closes, and bug moves higher in the review team schedule.

 

• Pie in the Sky & Sci-Fi AI

••At some point in a bug submittal review, a remote desktop connection between submitter and reviewer might be useful.

••A future Artificial Intelligence Reviewer might support hundreds of simultaneous connections at beginning or any stage of bug submit or any other tech support ticket.

 

enough, already!

-B

 

-B

[Kevin McAllister]

Another update on my recent experience. I've filed a few bugs since installing VW2018. Some of them have had acknowledgement emails, some have not. Does that mean the unacknowledged submissions are not bugs? Does that mean tech support is too busy? Not sure. I do know I prefer a response.

 

KM

[PVA - Admin]

4 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

Some of them have had acknowledgement emails, some have not. Does that mean the unacknowledged submissions are not bugs? Does that mean tech support is too busy?

 

Not necessarily. This process is undergoing changes, apologies if the results are inconsistent for the time being. If ever you are unsure, feel free to ask me here and I can look it up.

[Kevin McAllister]

1 minute ago, JimW said:

 

Not necessarily. This process is undergoing changes, apologies if the results are inconsistent for the time being. If ever you are unsure, feel free to ask me here and I can look it up.

Thanks for the clarification Jim. 

KM

[Art V]

On 8/13/2017 at 4:46 PM, Kevin McAllister said:

Some other issues with Bug Submit -

 

- if you think of something to add to your submission after the fact, there's no easy way to do it. You don't have a reference/tracking number or a forum thread you can add to.

- this scenario means many bugs go unreported - example. This again makes me wish for an open bug list (existing wish - Open Bug List - please up vote) so there's some way to make sure things are getting reported.

- and again a wish for a 3rd party way to submit bugs that aren't mine but need to be reported. Something like this - Flag Forum Post

 

Kevin

The Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg) distributor has basically all of the things you mentioned when using their VSS support system, tracking number, e-mail when a support person responds to your support request (also used for bugs) and the ability to follow up on your submitted issue in a thread style like this forum communicating back and forth with the support person who is handling it.

Because I preferably should use my distributor's VSS support channel for support and bugs I never really noticed the shortcomings you mentioned about the bug report system. If the bug report system would become something like this it will be an improvement.

[Kevin McAllister]

Big bug submit fail today resulting in a cleared form and me having to re-enter all of my bug submit information. All because I didn't select an OS from the dropdown because the dropdown doesn't include High Sierra, which I'm using. Very frustrating. Is this process ever going to improve???

 

Kevin

[PVA - Admin]

Just now, Kevin McAllister said:

Is this process ever going to improve???

Yes.

[Kevin McAllister]

Just now, JimW said:

Yes.

At least you made me smile 

KM

[Kevin McAllister]

@JimWis the bug submission system down? I'm trying to submit a bug for this thread - https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/53515-extrude-along-path-issues/ . I was able to submit a file but both times I've tried to submit the Bug Submission form when I click on the Submit button nothing happens. Sigh, I really find this system frustrating. I'm tired of filling out the form over and over.

 

Kevin

 

[PVA - Admin]

1 minute ago, Kevin McAllister said:

@JimWis the bug submission system down? I'm trying to submit a bug for this thread - https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/53515-extrude-along-path-issues/ . I was able to submit a file but both times I've tried to submit the Bug Submission form when I click on the Submit button nothing happens. Sigh, I really find this system frustrating. I'm tired of filling out the form over and over.

 

Kevin

 

Confirmed, alerting them now.

[Kevin McAllister]

Thanks Jim!

 

The biggest advice I can give about using the Bug Submission form is to type out your bug submission somewhere else first so you have it saved and then paste it into the form. The number of times I've had to retype my submission is too many to count.

 

Kevin

Edited December 6, 2017 by Kevin McAllister

[Kevin McAllister]

I'd really love a Bug Submit page that doesn't use "Prove you're a human" technology. If I'm logged into the Forums or logged into Service Select that should be enough. I'm tired of clicking on cars and street signs to train some mystery computer.

 

Kevin

 

[PVA - Admin]

Just now, Kevin McAllister said:

I'd really love a Bug Submit page that doesn't use "Prove you're a human" technology. If I'm logged into the Forums or logged into Service Select that should be enough. I'm tired of clicking on cars and street signs to train some mystery computer.

Once we get the new one (I know, I know, its been forever, driving me nuts too) that part shouldn't be needed. The human verification part will happen either because youre already a forum member, using a Service Select login, social media login, etc.

The only reason we have the current one with the captcha/match is because the old bugreport system is so basic it's immediately flooded by bots which in turn floods our tracking system, which delays everything even further. 

[Kevin McAllister]

23 minutes ago, JimW said:

Once we get the new one (I know, I know, its been forever, driving me nuts too) that part shouldn't be needed. The human verification part will happen either because youre already a forum member, using a Service Select login, social media login, etc.

The only reason we have the current one with the captcha/match is because the old bugreport system is so basic it's immediately flooded by bots which in turn floods our tracking system, which delays everything even further. 

 

Thanks Jim. I assumed as much but as you've said in the past, if you don't ask for it it may not be on the list 

I've clicked on so many street signs and cars today..... I'm sure I'm only making those bots smarter.

Kevin

 

[PVA - Admin]

Just now, Kevin McAllister said:

as you've said in the past, if you don't ask for it it may not be on the list 

Always a fact!

Anyone else reading this that is at their wit's end with the current bug reporting system, I implore you to upvote it at the top left of the original post in this thread. The more weight I can put behind it, the faster it'll get allocated resources. 

[Kevin McAllister]

20 minutes ago, JimW said:

Always a fact!

Anyone else reading this that is at their wit's end with the current bug reporting system, I implore you to upvote it at the top left of the original post in this thread. The more weight I can put behind it, the faster it'll get allocated resources. 

This is another one of those "eating your own dog food" situations, isn't it. (It was an expression you used in a previous thread.) Maybe someone can train the bots to upvote wishes!

KM

 

[Kevin McAllister]

22 hours ago, JimW said:

Confirmed, alerting them now.

 

Do you know when it might be fixed? I tried a few times later in the day yesterday and again this morning. The page is still up so its hard to know if its fixed.

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 

[PVA - Admin]

3 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

 

Do you know when it might be fixed? I tried a few times later in the day yesterday and again this morning. The page is still up so its hard to know if its fixed.

Thanks,

I do not, unfortunately. I'll poke the web team about it again, in my view it would be better to have it be switched to a page that just says "Go post on the Troubleshooting forum instead." than to leave it up but broken.

Until you hear otherwise from me though, feel free to post bugs in the troubleshooting forum and I'll file them myself directly.

[Art V]

19 hours ago, JimW said:

Always a fact!

Anyone else reading this that is at their wit's end with the current bug reporting system, I implore you to upvote it at the top left of the original post in this thread. The more weight I can put behind it, the faster it'll get allocated resources. 

Already upvoted this in the past, can't upvote again. Is there perhaps an option to reset the upvote count for the this topic for the registered " Forumites"  after e.g. 4 or 8 weeks without losing already casted votes so that they can upvote again? Just a friendly suggestion to expedite the priority ranking for this "feature request" 

[Kevin McAllister]

Bumping this. The bug submission process is still as cumbersome as ever (and I've used it a lot with VW2018). Also I still prefer when I get acknowledgement emails but they don't seem to be part of the process anymore 

 

Kevin

 

 

[Kevin McAllister]

I'm bumping this again. I've decided I would like the bug submit process to send me an auto-reply containing my bug submission. I've submitted so many bugs recently its hard to keep track of them. (The same goes for tech support requests submitted through the Service Select portal - I should receive a confirmation email with the details of my submission automatically.)

 

Kevin

 

[PVA - Admin]

I think at this point we are simply awaiting time from the Web team. We're in the process of tossing out and replacing quite a few things (Maybe, perhaps, because the Forum platform update went so well? Eh? Eh? 😁 )  across our various web presences and the bug submit page is on the list and auto confirmation was on the spec sheet last I saw it. The thing my team is actively working on at this very moment however is related to the Service Select portal, we have some much needed good changes coming in the immediate future.

We did a number of experiments with getting @BetaBot to post automatically on the forum on behalf of beta testers that submit directly via our bug tracking software, so they just filed a bug the "normal" way (for a beta tester anyway) and then Betabot handled making sure it was placed on the forum so it could be checked/tested/discussed by interested parties. These experiments went well and the engineer that had orchestrated that has been able to pull a few more tricks with it that exceeded expectations. The biggest issue is, going from a strict structured form (what we track bugs with internally, not the bug report page that you all see) to a forum is relatively easy.

BUT if a user makes a "bad" post in a bugsubmit area for whatever reason, then betabot picking it up and filing it just makes for a rapidly growing pile of things that are not bugs filling up the bug list, which is bad because then engineers spend time sorting through bugs vs not bugs as opposed to spending their time fixing them. The trick will be how we can mix automation with a bit of human oversight to keep a clean bug list.

 

Currently the bugsubmit form filters through tech support before it goes anywhere else but a human being reads every single one. For anyone's information who is reading this: easily 70% of all submitted bugs are either just tech support cases that just need a tech to fix, or simple user error/user knowledge issues. Until we work that out, users are free to post here on the board and myself or the other increasing number of employees you see on the board can get it filed in a timely manner.