i.eric___ Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Hey everyone, I'm using VW 2017 and noticed that VW is creating it's own classes from time to time and moving my objects into them. For example, I have some par can lights ("Hex Pars") and assign those lights to the <Lighting> class. I do a few more things and then notice there is a new class called <None> and the par cans now *APPEAR* to be in that class (grey'd out even though <Lighting> is on). If I show/hide the <None> class the lights go away. The WEIRD part is that when I click on the lights and look at the Obj. Info box, it says they are still in the <Lighting> class (as they should be). I apologize if this is confusing — to clarify, the lights are listed (in Obj Info) as being in the LIGHTING CLASS but behave like they are in the NONE class. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment
markdd Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Have you checked that the geometry of the symbols is not in the None class. It is my understanding that the None class is in every file and cannot be deleted. Quote Link to comment
SamIWas Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) Yep. Most likely the internals of the symbol are in the "None" class. This is very normal. "None" is the default class in every document (along with "dimension"). Your lighting symbol might be in the "Lighting" class, but the lines and polygons that make up that symbol are probably in "None". Edited July 26, 2017 by SamIWas Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Probably not a bug. Most new users go through something like this at some point while learning about how Layers and Classes work. VW has a concept called "Container Objects" and a class hierarchy. A container object (typically symbols, groups and Plugins) can contain other objects. Every object in VW has a Class and is on a layer (or in a container that is on a Layer). If the class of the container is different from the class of the object(s) inside the container, both classed have to be visible for the contained objects to be visible. So if the light object (the container) is in the Lighting class, but the objects that make up the light (the contained objects) are in a different class (maybe None), then in order for the light to be visible both Lighting and None must be visible and the Class options must be set to something other than Active Only (normally Show, Show/Snap, or Show/Snap/Modify others). I have written about this before. Write back if you need more information. Quote Link to comment
i.eric___ Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 Okay that makes sense. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment
Andrew Davies Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Pat's right. This often catches out new comers to Vectorworks. It certainly caught me out. Makes sense though once you're used to it. Quote Link to comment
mjm Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Could the below contribute to the perception of classing problems? You're looking at a 2017 26º ETC LUSTR II SYMBOL. Why does the classing shift between incandescent & LED on body elements? If this is a sloppy build, wonder how many more of these are in the libraries. Quote Link to comment
markdd Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 24 minutes ago, mjm said: Could the below contribute to the perception of classing problems? You are right. Personally I use the symbols as a guide only and always adapt them for my own workflow and drafting style. Many others do not however and this will give some of the less experienced users quite a few headaches and worse still, the perception that VW is buggier than it is. It also takes up so much time trying to work through all the niggly issues especially if time is short. Quote Link to comment
mjm Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 16 minutes ago, markdd said: You are right. Personally I use the symbols as a guide only and always adapt them for my own workflow and drafting style. Many others do not however and this will give some of the less experienced users quite a few headaches and worse still, the perception that VW is buggier than it is. It also takes up so much time trying to work through all the niggly issues especially if time is short. And when is there a plethora of time to get the plot done these days I wonder? So, do you mean to say you re-class all your lighting objects, 2d down to the individual parts in the three d model? Quote Link to comment
markdd Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 I was taught to draw plots in a very particular way and also by hand from stencils. Many of the symbols in VW are not drawn the way I like them and are not always that representative of the instrument they are representing, especially the older ones. The newer symbols are much better. My symbols work like this: The 2D part has 3 classes, Lights-2D, Lights-Info (for things like beam angles and other text etc) Lights-Yoke (I draw a two yoke lines that denote the exact width the fixture will take up on a pipe including lock-off and shutters). The 3D Part of the symbol has 2 classes, Lights-3D and Lights-Col (for colour, colour frame or lens) I've been doing this for ages and all my symbols adhere where possible to a standard that has worked well for many years. They also adhere to USITT standards as well as the ABTT standards here in the UK. I find that on any project there is not often much need to adapt more than a couple of the stock symbols so the work load is negligible. It also passes the time on train journeys and in departure lounges where I seem to spend quite a lot of my time travelling to and from productions! Quote Link to comment
RickR Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I often rely on deleting classes. In a library file you can re-class entire sets of symbols by deleting the class. VW then presents a dialog with where to put the objects on that class. I prefer None, but if you set up (see importing classes) your favorite classes then you can move them - in bulk! The only drawback is if you import a new copy of the library file you can lose your customization. So change names, locations, something to make sure that doesn't happen. Quote Link to comment
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