"Symmetry Object" needed

[grant_PD]

So much stage design is about symmetry off of Center. I would love to have a "symmetry group" whereby anything inside that group is mirrored over the axis line of my choosing.  Once all the changes had been made, I could choose to ungroup and either destroy the mirrored copies, keep them.  

 

I can see a lot of potential for a tool like this while doing detailing of things that are symmetrical.

[Andy Broomell]

I'd definitely use this.

 

You can sort of do this now with Design Layer Viewports. Have one design layer where you model half of something, and on another design layer create a DLVP looking at your first layer, and flip it horizontally. Then anything you do on your first layer is mirrored in the DLVP. It's not 100% intuitive but once it's set up it should work decently.

[bcd]

Yes yes.
I've often thought of this -
Working inside a symbol or mirrored DLVP get you there but it's clunky limiting.
SubDivision has this already, it would be very useful and probably used more than the developers could imagine.

[AlanW]

Hi, Have a look at this Marionette object. Double click on it and reshape the object, the mirror changes to suite. move the mirror points apart and the see what happens. One is 3D. Have a play and maybe this can be the start of something useful.

you can right click and change control geometry (the shape that controls the object shape) Delete one and add another then exit out to get back to the shape to play with.

Interested in feedback and may make a better one with more options, or you can play with the network yourself and experiment.

Mirror object.vwx

Edited July 27, 2017 by Alan Woodwell

[Pat Stanford]

Nice work Alan.  And I thought I was going to be able to use this as a challenge to learn more about Marionette. ;-)

 

I did notice that you are not treating the control Geometry as a group. If you convert the 2D version of the control geometry (edit by right clicking and Edit Control Geometry) to a group, you can put multiple objects inside the group and get them to all mirror at the same time.

 

Obviously since the 3D version is doing an extrude and you can't extrude a group it fails there.

 

As simple as the 2D network is, this is a perfect example of the true power of Marionette. The script to do this would be much longer and less robust. Here you just throw things into the control group and it works!

[AlanW]

I think there is a lot of potential for these simple things where you don't necessarily create lengthy networks but just a simple object, its like the drawer network (Open or Closed).

Need to play more with this to see what options are available. I see that when you group the control geometry you dont get option to edit from outside the network.

With a few adjustments you can get the 4 way mirror also

See attached updated file

 

There must be lots of uses but i cant think of all of them but when someone asks a question it make me think. this will be an endless journey, but also lots of fun.

Drawers_V002_Max_open_200mm.vwx

@JimWPossibly Jim might need to move this conversation to marionette now??

Mirror object_001.vwx

Edited July 27, 2017 by Alan Woodwell

[bcd]

I don't think marionette will be the general solution for this wish. I imagine more a MirrorMe setting for objects placed directly on a design layer. The best I've come up with is a mirrored symbol or mirrored design layer viewport , both of which have limitations wrt the potential for what would be a completely new and transformative functionality 

Edited July 28, 2017 by bcd

[Pat Stanford]

3 hours ago, bcd said:

 

I don't think marionette will be the general solution for this wish.

 

Marionette might not be the full general solution you might wish for, but it can probably get you 90% of the way there today or tomorrow instead of maybe someday. ;-)

 

7 hours ago, Alan Woodwell said:

There must be lots of uses but i cant think of all of them but when someone asks a question it make me think. this will be an endless journey, but also lots of fun.

 

Sound a lot like why I write script to help solve issues people are having on the board.

[AlanW]

@grant_PDhi, could you give an example of what you are trying to achieve? An image or small sample file so I can better understand and hopefully come up with a solution.

thanks

 

[Kevin McAllister]

6 hours ago, Alan Woodwell said:

@grant_PDhi, could you give an example of what you are trying to achieve? An image or small sample file so I can better understand and hopefully come up with a solution.

thanks

 

 

Alan, here's an example file containing a made up stage setup. I could imagine using a Symmetry object for something like this. Its not so much for generating patterns as it is for doing symmetrical room setups.

 

The same file also contains a Marionette mirror object I messed around with a bit. It allows you to choose the mirror axis, x or y. I suspect Grant is interested in something like the Symmetry object from C4D which allows you to choose the mirror plane (xy, xz, yz). The Marionette Mirror node seems to be limited to mirroring along the x or y axis and claims to only work on 2d object in its description (which is wrong since my example mirrors an extrude). I can imagine wanting the resulting Marionette object to have a loci located at the internal origin of the Control Geometry so you could align it in a drawing. I tried collecting that point using Marionette methods I've used before (PIO Handle) but it failed.

 

On 2017-07-27 at 9:30 AM, Pat Stanford said:

I did notice that you are not treating the control Geometry as a group. If you convert the 2D version of the control geometry (edit by right clicking and Edit Control Geometry) to a group, you can put multiple objects inside the group and get them to all mirror at the same time.

 

Pat, I remember reading about grouping Control Geometry for another reason so I tried it with my Marionette Mirror object. I couldn't get it to mirror a group.

 

Kevin

 

Mirror object_KM.vwx

Edited July 29, 2017 by Kevin McAllister

[grant_PD]

Here's a typical plan of a theatrical show. Often times (not always, but a LOT) the plan is symmetrical on the upstage downstage centerline. So what would be helpful is to have a symmetry group, where I could put things into it and have it appear across that mirror plane. As I move things around, take things out, elevate, etc, the other side would do the same. If for some reason I wanted to destroy the group, I would want the option to keep the mirror objects or destroy them. 

 

 

[bcd]

Marionette is great - but I don't think it's going to be the solution  - DLVP Design Layer Viewports already can do this much effectively imo.

The problem is that you can't reach into Stage Left & move / delete items but you do get instant mirroring across the U/S D/S centerline - and items like Video Screens, Lighting Instruments don't mirror well

Some items need to be mirrored, others mirrored & flipped.

The advantage I see over a Marionette solution is that nothing is wrapped up into a Marionette object and work can proceed across the drawing as usual.

Items that are to be mirrored SL are placed on the Stage Right layer.

Asymmetrically placed objects are placed on the Staging Layer.

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by bcd

[bcd]

Symmetry_using_DLVP.mov

Edited July 29, 2017 by bcd

[AlanW]

@bcdHi thanks for this will have a play and see what I can come up with.

[AlanW]

@grant_PDHi, Have played a bit and so far have come up with this. The right side is a symbol, change items in the symbol and the marionette object reflects the symbol. See if this can assist.

Mirror_object_KM_002Symb.vwx

[grant_PD]

Excited to try this out!

[AlanW]

Have tested out image props and lights and they appear to work and mirror across.

Mirror_object_002_Symb.vwx