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Jim Wilson

Teaser Tuesday - Multiple Drawing Views - Vectorworks 2018

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4 hours ago, JimW said:

Sorry for the blip in the middle, i cut the part where I had to convert the polyline to a NURBS to allow for Z height editing, but I was able to do that even without leaving the edit mode in any of the panes:

 

Did you just let something else slip? The path object is currently automatically converted to a NURBS curve when you create an EAP. Does this mean that the EAP has been improved so the path is non-destructive?

(If it has, that is BIG news.)

 

Kevin

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8 hours ago, rDesign said:

 

Thanks JimW. 

I really hope that is not the permanent plan; I'd hate to see the roll-out of such a major new feature marred by poor UI decisions.

Cheer up

 

Isn't that the whole point of beta testing??

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12 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

 

Did you just let something else slip? The path object is currently automatically converted to a NURBS curve when you create an EAP. Does this mean that the EAP has been improved so the path is non-destructive?

(If it has, that is BIG news.)

 

Kevin


You know... I think it is. I can't find any explicit mention of it in the task documents and yet:

Screen Shot 2017-08-04 at 9.00.26 AM.png

 

Gonna throw some more complex examples at it and see what happens.

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Yup! Seems to keep it as Polyline if the source path object was a Polygon or a Polyline. It appears I can freely convert the path in the editing mode from NURBS < > Polyline as long as the path follows a single plane, but NURBS is required if the path needs to travel in X, Y AND Z. 

A pleasant surprise, thank you for noticing! I totally missed it and I was staring right at it.

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13 minutes ago, JimW said:

Yup! Seems to keep it as Polyline if the source path object was a Polygon or a Polyline. It appears I can freely convert the path in the editing mode from NURBS < > Polyline as long as the path follows a single plane, but NURBS is required if the path needs to travel in X, Y AND Z. 

A pleasant surprise, thank you for noticing! I totally missed it and I was staring right at it.

This is great! What happens with circles, rectangles and ovals as paths.... I think those would be the key test since they become difficult to reshape after the automatic conversion to NURBS.

Kevin

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When you are editing the path of an EAP in one window, can you edit the profile in another?

 

Thanks!

Edited by markdd

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Y'all know what this means... we can now EAP using profile symbols and have control of the EAP locus-profile offset, probably @ the insertion point of the symbol.

Maybe also we can Reverse Direction directly from the OIP and

EAPs of multiple profiles retain their classes, attributes, textures  & visiblilities.  Nice (?)

And edit a paths control points/vertices without entering the EAP

Edited by bcd

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Wish< Auto convert to Nurbs if we need to move a control point/vertex out of plane.

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8 hours ago, Andrew Davies said:

Cheer up

 

Isn't that the whole point of beta testing??

 

I'm plenty cheerful, see? :D  But I am not a Beta tester, only an end user who likes good UI design in 1.0 releases.

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It is not possible that all views 'follow' you into groups, solid aditions, subtractions etc?

Or do you have to 'go in' at every view separately?

 

 

Edited by Bas Vellekoop

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3 hours ago, Bas Vellekoop said:

It is not possible that all views 'follow' you into groups, solid aditions, subtractions etc?

Or do you have to 'go in' at every view separately?


At the moment, none of that behavior is linked from pane to pane. This gives advantages in letting you have multiple separate editing modes open at a time, which wasn't possible before, but I agree that being able to link two or all panes to edit modes might be useful as well.

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3 minutes ago, JimW said:

being able to link two or all panes to edit modes might be useful as well

That workflow is excellent. In 3Ds for example, you frequenty pick up an object or vertex, and then look at another view while moving to get exact positioning.

Takes some getting used to, but speeds you up no end.

 

Also, what would be lovely, is if our selection handle can toggle to the behaviour of the gizmo in subdivision. It's really handy to restrict to one or two axes at any given time.

Is it possible, in the new set up to have a top, side and section view open at the same time?

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1 hour ago, JimW said:


At the moment, none of that behavior is linked from pane to pane. This gives advantages in letting you have multiple separate editing modes open at a time, which wasn't possible before, but I agree that being able to link two or all panes to edit modes might be useful as well.

 

I was hoping for a option in Multiple View Panes menu.

Maybe it can be a wish item

 

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Jim,

 

Can you confirm it would be possible to have different projections for each pane. For example can I have a 3d view in perspective in one pane and a front view as an orthographic projects (no perspective) in another?

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 

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34 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

Jim,

 

Can you confirm it would be possible to have different projections for each pane. For example can I have a 3d view in perspective in one pane and a front view as an orthographic projects (no perspective) in another?

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 


Yup that control is explicit per pane.

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On 2017-08-04 at 6:59 AM, JimW said:

Yup! Seems to keep it as Polyline if the source path object was a Polygon or a Polyline. It appears I can freely convert the path in the editing mode from NURBS < > Polyline as long as the path follows a single plane, but NURBS is required if the path needs to travel in X, Y AND Z. 

A pleasant surprise, thank you for noticing! I totally missed it and I was staring right at it.

 

After a little testing in VW2018 I can confirm there is a change with how VW deals with EAP path objects. Its not really non-destructive but instead of converting most things to NURBS curves it now converts 2d objects to polylines instead. Interesting but more of a neutral change. I still can't have a circular path that I easily edit to change its radius or diameter since now instead of becoming a NURBS curve the circle is converted to a polyline instead.

 

Maybe someone could steal the code to make this wish come true - 

The conversion process seems to make nice clean polylines. A new VW workaround - create an EAP to convert an object to a polyline o.O:D

 

Kevin

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I must have gotten the explanations here wrong.

Instead it does what I want.

I can start with a rectangle in Top Plan View and Extrude it in the Isometric View beside.

Same Visibility lock for all works too.

 

But strange behavior with 3D Navigator, if anybody noticed.

If you started in a 2D Top Plan View using the Navigator,

activate an Isometric view > Navigator will stuck in 2D Rotation Lock Mode.

If switch through that ISO Panes 2D/3D Options, until Navigator works finally 3D and

go back activating the Top Plan View, it will make switch that Pane to the same Iso View

where the cursor came from.

 

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1 hour ago, zoomer said:

I must have gotten the explanations here wrong.

Instead it does what I want.

I can start with a rectangle in Top Plan View and Extrude it in the Isometric View beside.

Same Visibility lock for all works too.

1

 

Yes, though there are always rooms for improvements, these workflows should work out naturally. If there is anything you feel unintuitive, feel free to post anything for discussions.

 

1 hour ago, zoomer said:

But strange behavior with 3D Navigator, if anybody noticed.

If you started in a 2D Top Plan View using the Navigator,

activate an Isometric view > Navigator will stuck in 2D Rotation Lock Mode.

If switch through that ISO Panes 2D/3D Options, until Navigator works finally 3D and

go back activating the Top Plan View, it will make switch that Pane to the same Iso View

where the cursor came from.

2

 

Sorry, remind me again what 3D mouse model you are using?

I'm using my SpaceMouse Enterprise and not observing the problem you described. 

 

Thanks!!

 

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I misunderstood that you could not use a running tool over multiple panes.

Looks like it works well and this is what makes multiple view panes finally useful.

 

 

I also used the Enterprise on Mac.

Can try a Space Navigator tomorrow too.

Maybe I have strange behavior as I also use a Wacom Driver for my Cintiq 27 Touch.

(In case I am the only one experiencing this behavior)

Edited by zoomer

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45 minutes ago, zoomer said:

I misunderstood that you could not use a running tool over multiple panes.

Looks like it works well and this is what makes multiple view panes finally useful.

 

Yes, you are able to cross over between different panes even in the middle of drawing, e.g. drawing polylines or rectangles.

But there are limitations. Basically, the following cross over interactions are not allowed:

  1. Between Top/Plan panes and 3D panes.
  2. Between the panes with different active layers

 

For instance, you can start drawing a rectangle by clicking the first point in a Top/Plan pane in "Design Layer 1", and clicking the second point in another Top/Plan pane in "Design Layer 1". But you can't do it by clicking the second point in an orthogonal pane.

 

45 minutes ago, zoomer said:

I also used the Enterprise on Mac.

Can try a Space Navigator tomorrow too.

Maybe I have strange behavior as I also use a Wacom Driver for my Cintiq 27 Touch.

(In case I am the only one experiencing this behavior)

 
 

 

I was testing on Windows earlier today. I will test it on mac again tomorrow when I enter the office.

 

 

Edited by Chih-Pin
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11 hours ago, Chih-Pin said:

Basically, the following cross over interactions are not allowed:

  1. Between Top/Plan panes and 3D panes.
  2. Between the panes with different active layers

 

For instance, you can start drawing a rectangle by clicking the first point in a Top/Plan pane in "Design Layer 1", and clicking the second point in another Top/Plan pane in "Design Layer 1". But you can't do it by clicking the second point in an orthogonal pane.

 

 

 

o.O

 

1.

I think I did draw the Rectangle in Top Plan View and used the following PushPull in Isometric ?

2.

No problem as I 99% prefer to use same settings for all panes.

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11 hours ago, Chih-Pin said:

I was testing on Windows earlier today. I will test it on mac again tomorrow when I enter the office.

 

 

 

Oooh,

 

I have all sorts of strange behavior with View Navigation,

when I come back from another OS X Monitor Space, Rulers around some panes and for

other panes reapearing when pane activated, Cameras activated arbitrarily, Fit View temporarily

not working ....

 

Chih-Pin,

Can I send you a 70 MB zipped VW file (because of the Cameras)

and my current (converted from VW 2017 this time) Custom Workspace

for testing ?

Edited by zoomer

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Zoomer,

I just tested on my mac machine and it also works as expected. As you suspected, there might be some thing in the file or workspace.

 

1 hour ago, zoomer said:

1.

I think I did draw the Rectangle in Top Plan View and used the following PushPull in Isometric ?

 

This doesn't count within one tool. Technically, you are using Rectangle tool in one pane and then PushPull tool in another. 

You can imagine MultiView as a system quickly switching different views for different panes. If you are able to do it when manually switching the view projections, you should also be able to do it in MultiView in theory.

 

1 hour ago, zoomer said:

I have all sorts of strange behavior with View Navigation,

when I come back from another OS X Monitor Space, Rulers around some panes and for

other panes reapearing when pane activated, Cameras activated arbitrarily, Fit View temporarily

not working ....

1

We are aware of a bug that's similar to what you describe. If you are able to record any screen shot videos or reproducing steps before this behavior occurs, we will be easier to understand the problem and fix it.

 

1 hour ago, zoomer said:

Can I send you a 70 MB zipped VW file (because of the Cameras)

and my current (converted from VW 2017 this time) Custom Workspace

for testing ?

1

Sure, go ahead and send it to me or put it somewhere I can reach and you feel safe.

 

Best

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9 minutes ago, Chih-Pin said:

You can imagine MultiView as a system quickly switching different views for different panes. If you are able to do it when manually switching the view projections, you should also be able to do it in MultiView in theory.

 

OK, I get it.

Have to play and get used to what is possible and what not.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Chih-Pin said:

I just tested on my mac machine and it also works as expected. As you suspected, there might be some thing in the file or workspace.

 

I feared it will be like that :)

 

I tried to send these by forum PM system.

Edited by zoomer

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