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MartinFahrer

Touch Screen Vs Tablet Graphics display

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I'm looking to end the screen hand disconnect and I am seeing the two options.  Is a graphics tablet more for animators and Photoshop.  Will the Touch screen help or be frustrating because it is not accurate enough.  The tablet is a lot more expensive, but is it worth it for VW and Sketchup?  Any in put or experience is welcome.  Below are what I am looking at right now is the 13" Tablet to small the 17" is twice as much..  Is there another brand of Tablet recommended??

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G5AF1S0/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

https://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Cintiq-Interactive-Display-DTK1300/dp/B00BSOSCNE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1500898451&sr=8-1&keywords=Wacom+Cintiq

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

Edited by MartinFahrer
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First, I would not want to work in 3D or VW with less than 2560*XXXX pixel resolution.

Second, from my experience, less pen input accuracy needs lower screen resolution,

that means for the pixel amount needed, a Pen Display Monotor has to be large in size.

Like old Wacom Cintiq 27", Dell Canvas or MS Surface Studio.

So if my eyes would still be as good as in my teens, I would go for the new 16" Cintiq.

And, as Steve Jobs stated, there is no meaning in any pen touch input on a vertical!

screen.

 

Older Wacom devices like my 27" Cintiq had a paralaxe effect. that means the monitor

is about 5 mm under the glass. That is problematic if you look at your pen nib from

an angle. This ins't a problem anymore with current Wacoms, Surface, Canvas, Apple, ...

 

Input with Mouse and Keyboard is still the best and fastest input method in CAD.

So a pen display is only worth if you are annoyed by hand/screen disconnection

or hand problems with mouse usage to go to tablet pen input.

Touch is nice for everything except! 3D or CAD and no must have.

 

Don't forget that pen input means to hide part of the screen content, especially if

you are right handed. 

Edited by zoomer

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1 minute ago, zoomer said:

First, I would not want to work in 3D or VW with less than 2560*XXXX pixel resolution.

Second, from my experience, less pen input accuracy needs lower screen resolution,

that means for the pixel amount needed, a Pen Display Monotor has to be large in size.

Like old Wacom Cintiq 27", Dell Canvas or MS Surface Studio.

 

Is it pixel resolution or ppi?  A smart phone has 400-500 ppi  The Cintiq 27" is only 109 ppi,  not good at all.  I was thinking the 13 or the 17 has around 188 ppi which isn't bad. I would think ppi would have more to do with accuracy than pixel resolution, or is it a combo of both. I wish I could try out both and then decide.

 

Yes the hand screen disconnect is big considering I hand drafted for 10+ years professionally.

 

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High ppi would mean that you have to target your pen nib even more precise

to click something. Which doesn't work for me as the nib has some play

and moves inward when clicking.

 

With minimum pixel resolution I meant that you will need a certain amount

of pixels for a CAD App to have some drawing screen left beside the tool palets.

 

Normally high ppi means that text and everthing gets smaller which will impact

readability for old eyes.

If you can scale the App on a 8k monitor and it will just get sharper it is ok for me.

that is why I think I could like the 16" Wacom. but I always prefered my 30"

Cinema Display over a high res small labtop screen.

 

I like working on my 27" Cintiq, hand screen connection and I like to move my arms

and upper body on a horizontal display like I did when drawing plans by hand.

Although there is no more space for an ergonomic keyboard placement.

But there is absolutely no need to switch for someone that never had questioned

or had problems with a vertical screen and or mouse input.

 

Getting used to tablet input takes weeks or months. Going back to mouse not more

than 2 days and is faster and less tedious. Tested that recently.

But went back to pen display usage because it is cool :)

Edited by zoomer
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Yeah there is the cool factor too!  I get that.  Thanks for the info, it is giving me a lot to consider, as my eyes are not getting any younger.

 

 

Speed is key, can't you use Tablet and Keyboard.  Would I be able to have Dual monitor, display tablet and keyboard input (Yeah I want it all LOL)

 

What about a higher pixel touch screen monitor?  What are the pros and cons of Monitor vs Display tablet.  Looking for information of feel and easy of use, trying not to get to bogged down in tech specs.

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The 27" Cintig is the perfect screen size for my arm movement.

But it has large bezels around. If you put a keyboard in front the screen

is too far away. At the sides even worse. I built a stand an mounted my

keyboard over the top border.

 

Vertical Monitor :

back and neck aches

no body, just wrist movement

hand screen disconnetion

missing muscle memory

 

Horizontal Pen Display :

back and neck aches (not for me)

content occlusion by hand and arm

(cursor coordinate fields, RMB option menus, quad menu (Bricscad))

potential hand drag on screen without glove or screen foil

screen pollution

low nib drag, depending on nib type or foil

hard to double click

accidental double clicks

 

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I tried dual monitor at the beginning.

a) I always hated my vertical Cinema Display because I couldn't adjust its height

or place it at a lower 45 degree angle. So if I prefer horizontal, I even don't want

tointerrupt and look at the other monitor.

b) with mouse I got crazy when I accelerate my cursor in menu bar direction and

it jumped over to the other monitor. If I could prevent the cursor on second screen,

maybe. And I have no idea how you would switch monitors when using pen in a

linear tablet mode. But I'm sure there is a way by Wacom.

 

Edited by zoomer

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There shouldn't be any issue with standard keyboard usage beside a small 13 or 16" pen screen

with small bezels at all. These fit nearly 4 times into my large 27" screen.

 

If you didn't mind working on a high res labtop visually wise, such a smaller pen screen

should be fine for you.

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1 hour ago, zoomer said:

I tried dual monitor at the beginning.

a) I always hated my vertical Cinema Display because I couldn't adjust its height

or place it at a lower 45 degree angle. So if I prefer horizontal, I even don't want

tointerrupt and look at the other monitor.

b) with mouse I got crazy when I accelerate my cursor in menu bar direction and

it jumped over to the other monitor. If I could prevent the cursor on second screen,

maybe. And I have no idea how you would switch monitors when using pen in a

linear tablet mode. But I'm sure there is a way by Wacom.

 

Yeah I am Dual Monitor Tablet, I like to keep my tools on a second screen since I rarely look at the tools as I use shortcuts the majority of the time.  Thanks you, your imput is really fantastic.

 

I wonder 2 things..

 

A- If I used a touch monitor on a horizontal surface if that would be just as good as a graphics tablet, if not better because it's 27" and vertical.  You bring up a good point about double click and and also for me right click on the mouse I find faster on the tablet mouse.  Currently I have an Intuos Tablet and use the mouse to draft and the Pen to photo shop/ sketch.

 

B- Are there other "Tablet Displays" other than Wacom, that might work as well. ex:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V5QS1CC/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I1OG9QALY561PM&colid=2F52BOVFM8Q5F

 

Currently my Lap top screen is my tool bar monitor.   I have an HD 23" Monitor that I use for my drawing space.  One reason I was thinking of using the 27" Acer was to use it with a pen and horizontal - I fear the double click and right click ill be even more of an issue.

 

 

Edited by MartinFahrer
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With horizontal monitor I meant that a pen display sits flat on your table like a tablet.

 

There are coming more and more less expensive Wacom alternatives from China.

So far none had the pixel amount I wanted, so I am not informed on these.

But if you are used to and like to work with multiple monitors that might not be

an issue.

 

Wacoms are optimized for painting and artists. I don't think they had CAD and

precise clicking in mind.

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Thanks Zoomer!!  All good advice.  I wish there was a way to try it before I buy it.  :-/.  I hate to waste all the time of getting something that doesn't work and returning it.

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I also would have liked to try before I buy.

But realized, and that seems to be still true for me after my experiences,

trying before buying a pen display means a 3-8 weeks trial period.

So I watched all YouTube videos where someone reviewed or worked

with a Wacom Pen Display. (There are a lot !)

 

So I knew about all their problems, pros and cons, before I bought a used one.

Of course 99% was about painting, but it was enough to translate their experiences

to my 3D usage and decide if it makes sense for my needs.

(And Wacom delivered the promised driver and hardware issues I have seen in the Videos)

So a 27" is my thing.

If I would work on Windows I would have waited for the Dell Canvas Wacom Clone,

would have been cheaper, really flat on desk, has additional "Surface Dial"s and

no more parallax effect.

 

But the 16" fascinates me.

Nearly 4K res and such a small footprint.

If I just had better eyes and calm hands ;)

 

 

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I have a PC I will look into the Dell Canvas, that interests me.  I do wonder if I should get a 27" touch screen monitor and stay with the Wacom tablet I am used to.  

 

The 16" looks really good, however the price is a bit much and also the USB connection looks to be a problem.  I do love the You Tube videos and debated about getting an older Wacom on Ebay.  The below review is pretty good for the 16"

 

 

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Ooooohhhh thanks,

by that link I found some videos announcing a Wacom Cintiq 32" :)

10 new Wacom Videos bookmarked.

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To improve your interaction with stuff in the virtual realm I'd strongly recommend investing in a 3d mouse rather than a tablet/touchscreen input, if you do stuff in 3d.

 

VW is sort-of-mostly-compatible with 3Dconnexion devices.

 

Single best investment I've made in my setup. I'd now find doing any kind of 3d draughting without it immensely frustrating.

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On 7/25/2017 at 7:55 PM, line-weight said:

To improve your interaction with stuff in the virtual realm I'd strongly recommend investing in a 3d mouse rather than a tablet/touchscreen input, if you do stuff in 3d.

 

VW is sort-of-mostly-compatible with 3Dconnexion devices.

 

Single best investment I've made in my setup. I'd now find doing any kind of 3d draughting without it immensely frustrating.

 

 

Oh yes I love my 3D mouse and a wacom tablet combo.  I was wondering if the screen or graphics tablet would improve it.  I did learn and spent over a decade hand drafting I miss the connection with the project and the pencil, but I don't want to spend over 1000 + $ on something that kind of works.  

 

I take it a better investment is a bigger screen with a higher resolution.  I am looking into Sketchbook too.

 

 

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18 hours ago, MartinFahrer said:

I did learn and spent over a decade hand drafting I miss the connection with the project and the pencil,

 

 

On my desk I have:

a 3d mouse

a normal mouse

lots of bits of paper and pencils

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On my desk I have :

a Cintiq with Pen and Remote (and Keyboard)

 

In my cabinet I have :

2 3D mouses

lots of 2D mouses

lots of bits of paper and pencils

Edited by zoomer

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After much consideration of price and size I end up with a Huion GT-220 V2.  So far I am liking it, it does get some getting used to.  for well less than 1k and a 20" screen, I have to say I am impressed.

IMG_9654.JPG

IMG_9590.JPG

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I use a stylus in work and at home with SketchUp on a XP-Pen Artist 12 pen display monitor tablet  , I only got them last month but has been pretty easy to get the hang of.

The trick is using the pen on the tablet , However the pen has two buttons built in and also 6 on screen buttons and 1 touch bar you can program per application. So it’s pretty easy to add in features such as delete, undo and other tools. I also have programmed gestures on the tablet (two finger swipe left for undo etc). it worked perfectly fine with the software, there is now no more, or barely any, jitter when drawing diagonal lines slowly.

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8 hours ago, tiaopi said:

I use a stylus in work and at home with SketchUp on a XP-Pen Artist 12 pen display monitor tablet  , I only got them last month but has been pretty easy to get the hang of.

The trick is using the pen on the tablet , However the pen has two buttons built in and also 6 on screen buttons and 1 touch bar you can program per application. So it’s pretty easy to add in features such as delete, undo and other tools. I also have programmed gestures on the tablet (two finger swipe left for undo etc). it worked perfectly fine with the software, there is now no more, or barely any, jitter when drawing diagonal lines slowly.

 

I am loving my Huion GT-220 V2 Pen Display Tablet.  The Pen is much better than the touch screen and now at less than 500$ for a 21" display, wow.  The closest is the Cintiq at 2K for the basic it's not even a comparison when drafting, touch screen not needed. Combine it with a 3D mouse and wow  I might upgrade to the Next Huion up, for the short cut keys.

IMG_0679.jpg

Edited by MartinFahrer

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Do you find the tablet any better than a mouse in terms of RSI type problems?

 

(The hand I use to operate the mouse starts to suffer a bit if I have a few days of intensive drawing work)

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