Symbols with no class

[Bruce Kieffer]

Is there a way to create symbols with no class, not "none" class? I create symbols in the none class. When I place them I usually assign a different class. I can turn them on and off by class until I turn off the none class, then all symbols created with the underlying none class are hidden. So you may say just leave none class on? I use a lot of classes, and I turn them all off by option clicking the column in the navigation palette, then I check on the class I want to see.

[Pat Stanford]

Sorry, but there is not. Every object in the drawing is in a class and on a layer. No way to have a single object have more or less than 1 of each.

 

You are just going to have to accept that you will have to do an additional click to turn the None class (or whatever other class you decide to use for your "container" objects [Symbols, groups, PIOs] in.

 

You might be able to create a saved view that turn on only the None class then you will only have to choose the one class you want in the Nav palette.

[Bruce Kieffer]

I wish there was a setting for None class always on like lights in the mode bar.

[Andy Broomell]

If you leave it as your Active Class it'll always be visible (though this might not be workable depending on what you're doing).

[grant_PD]

have you tried the plugins here?  The class picker might help.

https://www.smartpaste.co.uk/free-tools/

 

[Bruce Kieffer]

Those are nice looking tools. I don't think any will help. I need the None class on all the time if I'm going to use symbol instances with multiple classes assigned.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Bruce Kieffer

[Andy Broomell]

I agree that it would be nice to have some way of "Locking" on the None class.

 

Along similar lines, I'd love the Visibility tool to essentially ignore the None class: 

https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/49491-visibility-tool-option-to-ignore-none-class/

 

The None class is just a special little snowflake.

 

 

[Andrew Davies]

For what it's worth - I think having a locked on None class (for example) would create more trouble than it's worth. 

[Bruce Kieffer]

I've returned to this question this morning. Here's what's going on. I have a #20 biscuit symbol in my drawing. It's underlying class is None. I want some of the biscuit symbols in one class, and some in another. Again, they only show up when the none class is also visible with the secondary class visible too. I see no solution to this other than to live with that, or to duplicate the symbol and change it's underlying class.

[Bruce Kieffer]

33 minutes ago, Bruce Kieffer said:

I've returned to this question this morning. Here's what's going on. I have a #20 biscuit symbol in my drawing. It's underlying class is None. I want some of the biscuit symbols in one class, and some in another. Again, they only show up when the none class is also visible with the secondary class visible too. I see no solution to this other than to live with that, or to duplicate the symbol and change it's underlying class.

I found a better solution. I changed the underlying class to "biscuits," and then put them on different layers to separate the biscuits in the drawing. It works.

[Pat Stanford]

Bruce,

 

This is back to the idea of "Container Objects".  Every object in VW has a class and is either on a layer or in a container (that is eventually on a layer). Symbols, Groups, Marionette Objects, and Plug-in Objects are all examples of container objects.

 

In order to see objects inside a Container Object, then the Class of BOTH the Container and the Contained object must be set to visible. If you have multiple nested Container Objects, then the class of every Container and every Contained must be visible.

 

Since you want to show a symbol in different classes, the objects inside the symbol (container) will at some point be in a different Class than the symbol. This means that you must have at least two classes visible to be able to see them.

 

Your VW expertise and level or drawing detail have progressed to the point where the Class Option of Active Only is no longer going to help you very often. Congratulations and Condolences. You are going to have to either adjust how you are drawing or allow you to continue to use Active Only (basically meaning no use of Container Objects) or change your workflow to allow you to accomplish something similar to what you used to get with Active Only.

 

The best work around for something similar to Active Only I have found is to leave the Class Options set to some form of Show Others and to make every Class invisible. Then set either the class of the Container or the Contined Objects to visible depending on what makes more sense for what you are working on. You can then use the Command Left Arrow and Command Right Arrow to step though the classes. Since the Active Class is always visible, that visibility coupled with the Classes that you manually set to Visible will simulate Active Only. If you do this often, you can use a Saved View to set the Class Visibilities  the way you want.

 

It is often better to try and keep as many of your container objects in a single class (often the None Class) as possible. That way when something is missing you only have one (or a few) Container classes that you need to be concerned about in trying to find things.

 

Another option is you only have a few of each symbol in a drawing, especially if what is included in the symbol is a single object, is to edit the Symbol Options and choose the Convert to Group under Other Options.  This will let you save the object as a Symbol so it will show in the Resource Browser and be accessible from multiple drawings (Library File) but will place it in the drawing as either a Group (if there are multiple objects  inside the symbol) or just as an object (if there is only a single object inside the symbol). If it places as a group you still have to worry about Container/Contained classes, but if it is placed as a single object you don't as there is no longer a container.

 

I'm glad you found a solution that works for you with Layers. Like I said above, you probably need to adjust your workflow to your enhanced drawing skills.

[Bruce Kieffer]

Pat,

 

Thanks for the advice. I have been using Show/Snap//Modify Others for classes and layers for a very long time, and I do understand all of the options you suggest, and I have used all of them at some point. As you probably guessed I'm moving to using symbols as much as possible in my workflow. I have not used symbols in the past. I'm trying to find a workflow that works best for me. The solution I found this morning is a very good one. I have been working on that drawing all day without any problems. I will keep all of you suggestions in mind as I move forward. Thanks.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Bruce Kieffer