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Gadzooks

Group manipulation/reshape not working

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I can't work this out...is it me?

 

My previous use of VW has always allowed a group (having been formed by placing several items together) to remain in their relative positions to each other (thats what a group is yeh?). This allows them to be squashed and shaped as 'a whole'. I have used this a lot as a way to make things fit - its a very useful side feature.

 

This isn't happening with 2017 SP4 on a Mac

 

I'm assuming its me - so don't come at me too hard.

Problems with group.png

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What is the geometry in the group? Is it a rectangle and two lines? Or is it a Plug In Object of some sort?

 

When I perform the same steps with a group containing a rectangle and two lines it works as expected here.

 

Kevin

 

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Thanks for taking a look at this

 

Yes just a 2D rectangle and two lines which behave normally when pushed and pulled away from the centre of the group.

 

But...Are you pulling the 'top' of the group over and resizing past the 'bottom'? To be clear, using the handles take a side fully across and past its apposing side (Imagine if it were 3D you'd be flipping it over) This inversion/flip is what seems to cause the grouped items to lose their geometry  - where it shouldn't. 

 

Or or at least on my setup! 

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2 minutes ago, Gadzooks said:

But...Are you pulling the 'top' of the group over and resizing past the 'bottom'? To be clear, using the handles take a side fully across and past its apposing side (Imagine if it were 3D you'd be flipping it over) This inversion/flip is what seems to cause the grouped items to lose their geometry  - where it shouldn't. 

 

I tried various things including what you're describing. Are you able to post a file containing an example group? Also, maybe add a signature to your forum profile that describes your setup (go the upper right, click on your username, choose Account Settings and choose signature from the list on the next webpage). Perhaps its a Mac or PC thing....

 

Kevin

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We have a bug logged internally with regards to the reshaping of rectangles in this way. It's being worked on :)

 

But thanks for sharing this! I hadn't thought of the impact in this way.

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@Gadzooks

Could you tell me what rotation the rectangle inside of your broken group is? As well as the original group that you tried to stretch to flip?

EDIT: Also, as Kevin mentioned, a file with this object would also be helpful.

 

Thanks!

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Thank you!

 

This appears file specific.

 

If you copy that group into a new document and "flip" it, does it still break apart? In my testing it does not, but if you still see something it could have to do with your document setup.

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You're correct on that one - a new (blank) doc and it works as it should!! However, starting again with my blank .sta doc it is still a problem, so it does seem the issue is with that. I'll have to bin it.

 

OK - not entirely sure were I go on this one - I'll make some changes and try to bottom it out what makes it fall-over, but weird as to how the document setup can have such an adverse affect. I'm obviously just learning the quirks of VW

 

Thanks for your help

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3 hours ago, Gadzooks said:

You're correct on that one - a new (blank) doc and it works as it should!! However, starting again with my blank .sta doc it is still a problem, so it does seem the issue is with that. I'll have to bin it.

 

OK - not entirely sure were I go on this one - I'll make some changes and try to bottom it out what makes it fall-over, but weird as to how the document setup can have such an adverse affect. I'm obviously just learning the quirks of VW

 

Thanks for your help

 

The file specific problem is somehow related to the Layer plane setting. If the rectangle and the lines are changed to Screen Plane the problem disappears. Any new rectangle I draw in the file in Layer Plane exhibits the same issue. Anything else I try (circle, polyline, line) works fine. That seems super weird to me...... @Marissa Farrellis the bug you mentioned related specifically to rectangles and Layer Plane?

 

KM

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I think I've finally cracked this one...

 

Kevin (thanks for sticking with this issue), it is as you say, something to do with the layer plane settings and I believe this is it......

 

I assume you have opened a 'blank' doc and tried the exercise without problems. This seems to work because the defaults on the layer you are drawing on are 'out of the box'. Most users will change the settings as appropriate for their Industry.

 

Try this - In the layer plane settings, set the layer elevation to anything but the default 0. Keeping the view to layer plane, try the square>2 lines>group flip test again. It splits!

 

This is why both you and Marissa have (correctly) concluded its a specific file issue. I had set my blank.sta file to values above zero. On testing the options, it seems its the height above ground plane rather than other parameter -  (say) the layer wall height - that influences this. 

 

BTW - if you check the layer from front view, you will see the geometry has been drawn upon the zero ground plane (as you would expect with 2D creation) - so nothing untoward in that respect. I also find - in limited testing - that the culprit is the rectangle as it doesn't seem to happen with other shapes.

 

Do you find this? If not, please let me know what your findings are. If yes......

 

@Marissa Farrell

I believe this is a bug. Maybe the one you were talking about? 2D objects drawn on the layer plane should 'forget' any height reference the plane has.

 

Thanks both.

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3 hours ago, Gadzooks said:

 

Try this - In the layer plane settings, set the layer elevation to anything but the default 0. Keeping the view to layer plane, try the square>2 lines>group flip test again. It splits!

 

 

Good catch. I actually tried moving the objects manually off the ground plane and also placing them on the front view "layer" plane  during my testing. It doesn't show up in those instances.

 

KM

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It has been over a year and in VW2018 groups cannot be resized. I have two extruded panels lying on top of each other as a group and I've always been able to grab the handles in front elevation and make them taller or shorter. No more. The scale does not work either and the OIP has ZERO information in it. Texture mapping has gone haywire, too. Are these bugs fixed for 2019. VW should not add any "features" until these bugs are fixed. Very disappointed (MC/VW user since 1995).

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13 minutes ago, MHBrown said:

It has been over a year and in VW2018 groups cannot be resized. I have two extruded panels lying on top of each other as a group and I've always been able to grab the handles in front elevation and make them taller or shorter. No more. The scale does not work either and the OIP has ZERO information in it.

 

^ Can you post an image or example file? I am able to scale extrudes in groups in a front elevation in both VW2018 and VW2019. Do you get scale handles at the corners? Have you tried pasting your group into a clean file and testing it there?

 

The main thing that can affect scaling is the mode of the Selection Tool. Make sure its not set to the first mode, Disable Interactive Scaling Mode.

 

Kevin

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I'm inside a group, so that may be the problem. Many, if not all, of the rendering tools do not work inside groups for me. I'll check the disable interactive scaling mode and make sure I'm not doing something dumb. Thanks for the tips!

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4 minutes ago, MHBrown said:

I'm inside a group, so that may be the problem. Many, if not all, of the rendering tools do not work inside groups for me.

 

Ah, yes, container editing..... completely broken in modern versions of VW. Here's the wish if you want to upvote it - 

 

I have seen the issue you're describing....

 

Kevin

 

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Thanks, I thought I was going crazy. I do most of my editing inside groups so I can isolate what I'm working on. Later versions of VW are severely disabled in this mode. I hope they fix it.

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1 hour ago, MHBrown said:

Thanks, I thought I was going crazy. I do most of my editing inside groups so I can isolate what I'm working on. Later versions of VW are severely disabled in this mode. I hope they fix it.

^ I use groups for isolation too. Editing within them has gotten progressively worse with each version, especially I you work with 2d objects as guides when editing things.

I would really like it to be fixed but my hunch is no one at NV uses this type of workflow.....

Kevin

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