romcole Posted December 27, 2002 Share Posted December 27, 2002 I'm inputting info from survey into dialogue box of property line tool and the resulting lines do not look anything like the survey drawing? Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment
Mbuck Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 The way property line tool works is incorrect. I have told NNA about this many times but, unfortunately I have been ignored, with respect to that matter. An azimuth is given in degrees from NORTH measured in a clockwise direction, 0 - 360 degrees, where North is 0 degrees but NOT 90 degrees as currently implemented in VW property line tool, refer to diagram: A bearing is slightly different. When giving a bearing, you are measuring in degrees east and west of NORTH and east and west of SOUTH. Your maximum measurement of degrees is 90. Let's say your azimuth is 30 degrees. Your bearing would be N 30d E as shown below: http://plymouth.ces.state.nc.us/staff/ameijer/for554/graphics/slide1.gif 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Robert Anderson Posted January 6, 2003 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted January 6, 2003 Maybe I'm missing something here, but the Property line tool works just this way. When I click the PL tool, the Create Property Line dialog displays. I enter: " n 67d32m18s w " in the Bearing field; " 240' " in the Length field; I click the + button under Add/Delete Segment and I get the result expected under the "bearing" specified in the URL above. It is true that the Create Property Line dialog allows me to enter E/W offsets greater than 90 degrees from N/S, but the Annotate Segments command properly corrects those headings to be less than 90 degree offsets. So I guess I'm failing to see what is "incorrect" about this. By the way, romcole, the vagaries of cross-platformm character parsing make it easiest to enter degrees minutes seconds as ##d##m##s, rather than trying to use the degree symbol. VectorWorks properly (and reliably) interprets dms. HTH. Quote Link to comment
Mbuck Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Hi Robert, I agree that there is nothing wrong with the way the VectorWorks property line tool parses, calculates and then ultimately displays the bearing of a line, which I agree is measured relative to the North and South cardinal compass points. The problem is that some countries don't use bearings, (my guess is that land surveyors wanted to differentiate themselves from nautical navigators), but instead use azimuth deflection angles. These angles are measured clockwise from North i.e. by map convention due North is 0 degrees and faces up the page. Your property line tool, on the other hand, assumes that North is along VW zero x-axis which is really due East by convention. North by convention is along the zero y-axis. Therefore the property line tool, for general application, should have two entry fields one to enter by bearing and the other by azimuth deflection angle which as I have stated are measured clockwise from North i.e. along VW's zero y-axis. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Robert Anderson Posted January 7, 2003 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted January 7, 2003 Mbuck, are you suggesting that under the system you describe, a North arrow would by convention point to page right? This seems illogical. Quote Link to comment
romcole Posted January 7, 2003 Author Share Posted January 7, 2003 Hi Robert, Architectural convention for drawings is that north points to the top of the page. If the drawing reads better in another direction that is of course used. As a design oriented architect and not a technical person I assumed that North would be pointing up (top of the y axis). After discussing this with a surveyor I work with he explained the difference and that U.S. surveys do use bearings and not azimuth angles. It would be very helpful to have a note with the PL instructions in the User's Guide. I eventually discovered the diagram in Appendix C but found it very confusing. Quote Link to comment
Mbuck Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Robert, I think you actually know what I meant when I wrote "North by convention is along the zero y-axis" unfortunately you choose to nit pick my reply. Therefore to set the record straight, I would like to restate it ?North by convention is in the direction of the y-axis at x=0 i.e. up the page?, certainly not page right, as the property line tool would lead us to believe. I am glad romcole and his surveyor concur with me. "Alas, how many have been persecuted for the wrong of having been right?" Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Robert Anderson Posted January 8, 2003 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted January 8, 2003 Not nitpicking, just asking for a clarification. Quote Link to comment
Raffer Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 As you see, I can speak with authority on this subject. I have used MiniCad since version 1 for my civil engineering and survey drawings since 1985. The property line feature on my version 8 works great but you must realize there are some mathematical errors in the very small decimal places, so you must be aware the figure may not mathematically close. Second, the 90? error submitted by another post, is not associated with the PL tool, but on angle entry from the VectorWorks desktop. Any manual entry is considered to be Polar coordinates which are referenced as 0? is along the positive x axis, hence N89?E is 01? on the data entry boxes on the desktop, accordingly S89?E is -01? on the desktop. To help clarify this in your mind, go to the local library and check out a surveying manual and a trig book and make the comparison. I find this program much easier to use than the AUTOCAD programs because of the scaling factor and line weights are the same as actually drawing the plats and plans. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment
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