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Hi,

 

I have been using VW for a bit over 6 months. I have moved from Acad after using it for 12 years. I really tried to embrace the differences and there are some things that work better than in Acad, some are different and some are just plain stupid. Of course I am writing about the stupid hoping that somebody will explain me that I am wrong.

 

Is it possible that out of all possibilities creators of VW decided to put same COPY and MOVE under a same function. So every time i decided to move something and use shortcut  I still have to look up , check if it is move or copy. Not to mention when you copy something and then right after you want to move it... its just to complicated and making me furious when i am in the middle of construction of a drawing and realize that instead of coping i have been moving the same element over and over...

 

If anyone have made some script, macro, button, whatever that is making possible to move or copy unrelated to a previous state, please share. I'm really in a struggle here.

 

Thanks

Jan 

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Are you doing it visually or via a menu command?

when dragging, there's a modifier key for copy... ctrl+drag on PC.

 

Doing it numerically you can move with the modify->move command, and to copy (and array) you can use the move by points command in the basic tool pallete.

 

Also, when ctrl+drag, visually moving, press the tab key to bring up the data bar. you have distance and angle on the first pair of inputs, then relative on the second (±x ±y is your cue), and then absolute co-ordinates on the third pair of inputs.

 

Stick with it, it's a much slicker workflow when you've adjusted to it.

 

Also, as with most programs, invoking a tool and pressing f1 will bring you up the help page, which are very well written, often with short videos on a lot of subjects.

 

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Yes, the move (copy) about points tool is ... strange.

 

Like the Drag Tool you can use it holding ALT to switch from move to copy mode.

I also often said that I would prefer 2 separate Tools.

But really painful gets the MBP Tool when you start to use the multiplier option

and use any other number than 1.

Even if you deactivated the copy mode, it will move olriginal + create n*copies.

 

 

This is just 1 of many most basic functions in CAD that drive me crazy in VW.

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RussU

 

I know and I am using all of mentioned options, but moving, array copy should be SEPARATE. Also dragging is totally useless if you want to be precise as you cant choose edge snap points (it starts scaling an object)...

 

@Zoomer

 

Drag tool is fun if you are using VW as Illustrator, for presentations, trees scattering... but anything else... You copy it with a drag and then again position it with another step... 

Workflow disaster....

 

 

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The MBP (Move By Points) is a wonderful tool. :) Under the options tool for MBP you can choose to retain or leave selected item Uncheck it and place 1 in number of duplicates and it simply moves the item.

I feel another video coming on.

 

Capture.JPG

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33 minutes ago, zoomer said:

But really painful gets the MBP Tool when you start to use the multiplier option

and use any other number than 1

I find this one of the most useful functions of all... saves a lot of align/distribute functions.

 

7 minutes ago, jah011 said:

Also dragging is totally useless if you want to be precise as you cant choose edge snap points (it starts scaling an object)...

Have you checked your resize buttons at the top of the screen? you'll have "resize off" "resize" and "resize multi".... switch resize to off

 

4 minutes ago, Alan Woodwell said:

I feel another video coming on.

Do it.... it's a superb tool :)

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20 minutes ago, RussU said:

I find this one of the most useful functions of all... saves a lot of align/distribute functions.

 

It is not the multiplier itself.

It is that the multiplier is NOT ignored when in move mode (retain off)

which is totally meaningless.

This way you have to watch the settings each time to prevent create accidental

copies when you want to move.

 

It is not a wonderful tool as it is.

I could show like jah011 examples where it is.

 

@jah011

The drag tool doesn't work ergonomically, but it does what you want.

1. Precission input works by TAB key or NUM numeric input if you set it that way.

(before you released the mouse button)

2. You can pick the corner, you just have to go a bit away from the corner with your cursor,

(I know, there may be better ways)

or set drag tool to the left drag only option.

 

And the best 2017 feature,

drag tool will no more switch or lose selection as long as you stay hovering over parts of

your selection.

 

 

Also Copy + Move Tools can have an optional fixed distance value, same for a Push Pull Tool

which can be very handy.

Edited by zoomer

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I must admit that I have one aggravating circumstance... my VW is in german :) 

 

I am sure there are many improvisations to mimic copy and move, just dont understand WHY? Why improvising, why combining several functions into one.... there is enough space, there are enough icons...

 

And for multiplier option... need of array is equal to 0 (in my case...) I dont know when did I use it, even in Acad. Maybe polar array, sometimes.  So, you have multiplier option and on the other hand it is not possible to make several copies in random places.... ie. have a window or a chair and then multiply it in different distances, positions etc... ? to hard to program that, to anticipate that people will need elements in uneven distances? :)

 

There is Duplicate/Multiple script that i downloaded and somehow installed, but it works a bit funny especially if drawing has rotated UCS.

 

Still think that as soon as I learn German and then scripting, i will make a script that will alow me to use MBP with copy and move without looking up :)

 

 

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I would also prefer its array features in an extra array tool and concentration on

move tool + copy tool with an simple multiplier.

 

The Copy Tool I was used before VW was so fast(*) that you never asked for any

array tool or multiplier until more than 12 copies needed.

 

(*) by providing the last distance as snapping option generally on the fly or as a fixed option..

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58 minutes ago, jah011 said:

I know and I am using all of mentioned options, but moving, array copy should be SEPARATE. Also dragging is totally useless if you want to be precise as you cant choose edge snap points (it starts scaling an object)...

I use dragging all the time. You need to click when the cursor is a cross and the tool tip is displayed, then you can tab and set a drag value. If the cursor is the diagonal arrows, it will resize as you say. Press the Y key if you're not seeing tooltips to turn them on.

 

The Move/Copy tool is clunky if you constantly switch between moving and copying.

 

Kevin

Edited by Kevin McAllister
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Microstation had a similar drag tool (With numeric input option) too.

It was barely used as it is kind of free hand tool by itself for sketching and

most of the time in CAD you will want to translate things to specific positions,

but it was there.

In VW you need to use drag tool in 90% as the alternative is the clunky MBP

or ALT+CMD+M "Command" if the distance is known.

 

You had your separate move and copy tools available, although you could switch

copy/move modes in them if you need that.

You could be always sure that moving means moving and not copying.

And as a "by Points" mode is always applied, you can use these in any cases because

there is no difference if want to translate by any far points or in a drag mode, starting

from a corner of the object.

 

Simple 1D arrays where normally done by setting the snapping divisor for edges as it is

available in VW (little hidden) too. Real complex arrays by the array tools.

 

And you could select an object first if you wish but normally you choose the tool first

because every Tool (that includes also most of VW hidden Commands) is Selection

as long as nothing is selected.

(As Tools make no sense without anything selected to manipulate > no need to press CMD)

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I find the tool redundant so I don't really use it. Duplicate Array or creating a Loci and aligning to the data point is a faster and more simple workflow, but that's just me.  

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Personally (and all these work preferences really are personal) - I prefer having fewer tools to remember thinking about, and have the related options in each tool.  For me this is a more powerful workflow.  Speaking about move/copy tool - I rarely use it - I normally use CMD-D (duplicate) with VW preferences set to duplicate in place, then CMD-M and enter dimensions for a precise move.

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The "Move by Points" tool is the latest addition to the array of tools for copying and moving.  It was an attempt to provide something equivalent to the AutoCAD method of copying or moving an object, but it does have its annoying aspects.  In addition to this tool, there are 5 other methods:

  • Duplicate (either in place or offset, a preference you can set)
  • Copy and paste
  • Click and drag using "ctrl" modifier to duplicate the object being dragged
  • Move command (moves any object by user input distances)
  • Duplicate array (copies and distributes copies along x, y, and z axes according to user input)

Each one of these has its place, but I tend to use "Move by Points" most often because it is more efficient, and you can click on any two points anywhere to determine the move vector.  To me the annoying things have been mentioned.  I leave the settings to one copy, move without duplication.  I use the "ctrl" key modifier which, when pressed while moving, toggles to move + duplication (technically, it saves the original object).  Multiple duplicates and the distribution modes are powerful and helpful, but we need to disagregate those functions so it is easier to control which method we want.  To me, having a modifier key that always gives you move the object without duplication regardless of settings, and another modifier key that always gives you move the object with 1 duplication, would be a good improvement.  Too many times I have inadvertently created 10 copies of an object because I forgot to change settings back.

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4 hours ago, Chad Hamilton HAarchs said:

 I normally use CMD-D (duplicate) with VW preferences set to duplicate in place, then CMD-M and enter dimensions for a precise move.

This is often my workflow too. Duplicate and move (both CMD-M for Move 2d and CMD-Option-M for Move 3d) are indispensable.

 

4 hours ago, P Retondo said:

Too many times I have inadvertently created 10 copies of an object because I forgot to change settings back.

 Ha this happens to me all the time.

 

KM

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Don't know if this helps:

I'm doing 95% of moving objects via 'move by points' method in screen plane mode. I have set the shortcut of 'move by points' to the Y-Key ( on german keyboard, Z-Key on english keyboard) so its simple to switch to the CTR-key for dublicating while moving. Meanwhile it's an automatic blind grab on these two keys and I almost dont think about what my finges are doing....

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MBP Tool would be immediately 80% less imperfect and embarrassing

if it would just ignore the multiplier in move mode.

 

Nevertheless I would still have to look up and check if it is in the right retain

or not mode each time I activate the tool icon.

That is why I still prefer to have 2 separate tools.

And, I repeat myself every few years, it needs a Continous Mode :

from here to there, there, there, there, ...

instead of from here to there, from here to there, from here to there, from here to there,

 

Although being imperfect, it still provides some function.

The 1D linear array function, like distributing a number of windows over a certain

distance is fascinating.

So if it only shines in array needs I would like to see MBP tool as such and so VW

is just missing proper Move + Copy by points tools.

(+ proper 3D scaling and rotation tools)

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Zoomer, post your suggestions for improvement for each tool in the Wishlist section.

 

There is a greater chance of it being seen and acted on if you post a convincing case for the change in that forum.

 

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You are right mike.

 

I think I did this long ago but I think it is worth to refresh ...

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There is a definite need for the continuing copy mode for the Move by Points tool that you have expressed.  

 

It is an obvious improvement and it would definitely get a thumbs up from me.

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Nice Video Alan.

I totally forgot about the "Reference Point Mode" or "Set Position" as it is called in Window Tool.

 

Could it be that you have now 2 overlapping rafters on the right side now ?

(the 6. copy + your original right rafter)

Edited by zoomer

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I think this thread should be renamed Move by Points

 

I actually like this tool - despite its quirkiness. It does demand more that the normal about of attention to the mode bar, and the Retain original button peculiarly seems redundant but necessary at the same time. 

Remember the quick keys to access the modes.

u to cycle through the first group

i to toggle retain original

o to bring up the preferences and 

p to enter the number of duplicates

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Agree with original poster--

 

It's almost like the programmers at VW need to open AutoCAD and start there with their drafting tools. The array command in my experience is useless--it works sort of like a cheap version of autocads array command. Developers should look at autoCADs MEASURE command for hints...

 

It also drives me crazy that there is no SCALE-REFERENCE or ROTATE-REFERENCE commands in VW. There should also be a construction (XLINE) command in VW for drafting lotouts quickly.

 

In theory, it sounds nice to build geometry out of shapes, as in illustrators pathfinder toolset, but in reality AutoCAD has been doing it way longer and pretty much figured out how the AEC world drafts.

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