Please Fix Drawing Co-Ordination - Bugs and All

[Kevin McAllister]

Please fix drawing co-ordination, including -

 

1. When duplicating sheets, the sheet number in the title block should auto-update. It used to but now you need to force the title block to update by editing and then cancelling.
2. When duplicating sheets, drawing numbers in the Drawing Label PIO should not change on the new sheet. I want an exact duplicate of the sheet I'm duplicating.
3. Sheets should correct when there are multiple drawings with the same number. Duplicate numbers are created by #2 above.
4. Sheets should have a hidden ID number that relates to the sheet in the Publish dialog. When I rename a sheet I shouldn't have to remove and re-add it to the publish list.
5. There should be a way to auto number Drawing Labels (eg. top left to bottom right, either going across first or going down first and then stepping to the next row or column).

 

Many of these issues are bugs introduced in VW2016 and VW2017. They really play havoc with efficient workflows that involve duplicating Sheets and Sheet Layer Viewports. I'm tired of proofing published PDF only to find I have to recreate them because I missed something that shouldn't of happened in the first place. Its taking up a lot of resources on my end.

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 

[Matt Overton]

All of the above and maybe some stretch goals:-

- Sheets should always show in the correct order by drawing number in every list.

- Group sheets into packages so it's easier to add and adjust numbers in big sets.

- Set a titleblock / Drawing label style that applies to all drawings the set or group. 

 

[RussU]

Although the sheets display with wrong numbers on duplicate, they're clearly correct on the "internals" of the program. As you mention, a simple edit title block and cancel corrects them. So a "Refresh numbers" button should set them all straight (Pat Stamford enters stage right with script in hand no doubt!)

 

If I'm being super picky, it would be nice to allow names to be re-used... I don't mean between sheets, but a design layer AND a sheet layer AND a Symbol of the same name. at The moment, I'm prefixing... l-B1, s-B1, d-B1 etc.

 

My workflow (for those who are interested) when detailing Steel is to;

1) Design up the frame in a file, using extrudes, structural shapes, plates and drills etc.

2) Use a symbol for repeatable parts (especially laser plates)

3) Symbolise the individual beams, B1, B2, B3 etc.. usually with the prefix of p-B1 to denote its a part

4) then symbolise the "assemblies" of each lump. so a-Beam1, might have 1no. B1, 3no, p1, 5no p2 etc...

5) do the general arrangement and erection drawings in that file

6) make a new manufacture file and reference in the symbols (for a two way relationship)

7) Make a new layer for each part, B1, B2 etc. and centre to origin, and rotate each part.

8) Make a sheet for each part, often by duplicating and adjusting layer visabilities.

9) annotate each part and assembly, using worksheets on each page to list the parts needed for each assembly

 

The lack of drawing co-ordination means that I end up with five sheets named B1, but they actually show B2, B3 but with the title B1. When it's late and everyone is tired, I end up with a workshop full of different B1's and no B2's and so on.... which causes a big headache, and sometimes steel is thrown away, and I get called rude names... all becuase the sheet numbers didn't update, and I was in a rush.

 

If anyone is interested in that workflow, I'll post a couple of example files to show how I do it.

There's bound to be people out there that say, use Tekla/Solidworks/Inventor, but I don't just do steel detailing... I work with fit out crews, electricians, window fitters, landscapers and all sorts, so the steel detailing is only one of the disciplines and it's nice to have it in VW.

 

The drawing co-ordination, or lack thereof is very annoying, and on occasion, costly.... Also... with sections, when you duplicate a sheet with sections on, the new section is bound to the previous sheet... and you have to activate it onto the new sheet by hand.

 

I'll post some files for people to give me feedback on the workflow listed above... might be over complicated, but thoughts and opinions very very welcome

 

Thanks

Russ

 

[RussU]

And here's some example files.

It's a bit of a conveluted workflow, but it does work... I hope it makes sense to those who are interested, and of course and suggestions whatsoever are all welcome.

 

You'll notice that it relies heavily on good referencing, good naming and especially good drawing number co-ordination.

You might need to re-reference the files on your local machine if they come up as broken.

VW_Example.zip

[Kevin McAllister]

7 hours ago, Matt Overton said:

All of the above and maybe some stretch goals:-

These are great.

 

7 hours ago, Matt Overton said:

- Sheets should always show in the correct order by drawing number in every list.

I would prefer organization by the stacking order that I have set in the Navigation Palette. I often have multiple sets or pull out drawings. I suspect you're directly referring to how they list in the Publish dialog. They always seem out of order there....

 

KM

[Kevin McAllister]

30 minutes ago, RussU said:

Although the sheets display with wrong numbers on duplicate, they're clearly correct on the "internals" of the program. As you mention, a simple edit title block and cancel corrects them. So a "Refresh numbers" button should set them all straight (Pat Stamford enters stage right with script in hand no doubt!)

 

It should just work, no user input required. Its those late nights you mention where I get bitten. It used to be fine so I'm pretty sure its a bug.... VW should just run the "refresh" automatically after duplicating a sheet and also before publishing.

 

30 minutes ago, RussU said:

 

If I'm being super picky, it would be nice to allow names to be re-used... I don't mean between sheets, but a design layer AND a sheet layer AND a Symbol of the same name. at The moment, I'm prefixing... l-B1, s-B1, d-B1 etc.

 

I often use prefixing too. A more flexible option would be better. I'm not sure why sheets don't have a hidden ID number to keep them unique, allowing users to name them whatever we want....

 

KM

 

[Pat Stanford]

2 hours ago, RussU said:

(Pat Stamford enters stage right with script in hand no doubt!)

Yes, it is probably possible to create a script that would reset the title block, but is saving a click worth the hassle of having to remember another menu command. But if anyone really wants this script and promised to use it at least 100 times ;-), I will see what I can work up.

 

I am hopeful that the title block will improve for 2018.

 

Some of the issues are baked deep into the core of VW.  Anything that uses the NAME of the object can not be duplicated. That data is used internally by the program and can't reasonably be changed without a serious overhaul of the guts of the program. Actually, Layers are stored in a different list, so you could have a layer and an object named DOOR, but not a Class and an object named DOOR.

10 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

• When duplicating sheets, drawing numbers in the Drawing Label PIO should not change on the new sheet. I want an exact duplicate of the sheet I'm duplicating.
• Sheets should correct when there are multiple drawings with the same number. Duplicate numbers are created by #2 above.

These two points confuse me.  First you say you want an exact duplicate and then in the next sentence say that the numbers should update. Does that not make it NOT an exact duplicate?

 

I am not using these objects in large drawing sets, so I have a totally different workflow and set of problems.

2 hours ago, RussU said:

I end up with a workshop full of different B1's and no B2's

This is coming from the interaction between VWs renaming algorithm and your trying to end your name with a number.  If you use B1- as the name, then when you duplicate you will end up with B1-1, B1-2, etc.  If you use B1 and duplicate you will get B2, B3, B4, etc.  Consider adding a suffix separation character and you may end up with a better workflow.  Any non-numeric character should work as the suffix.

[RussU]

3 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

Yes, it is probably possible to create a script that would reset the title block, but is saving a click worth the hassle of having to remember another menu command. But if anyone really wants this script and promised to use it at least 100 times ;-), I will see what I can work up.

I was just teasing! I seems like everything is possible in a script, but I just thought it shoudl work out of the box.

 

3 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

I am hopeful that the title block will improve for 2018.

Do you know something we don't I expect you're a beta tester already, so I'll absolutely read into that!!! Insider dealing.

4 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

These two points confuse me.  First you say you want an exact duplicate and then in the next sentence say that the numbers should update. Does that not make it NOT an exact duplicate?

I have just tested it on a simple sheet... I have four viewports of a steel frame, numbered one to four... I make a duplicate and all new viewports on the new sheet are numbered as five... just tested on 2017, sp4.

5 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

This is coming from the interaction between VWs renaming algorithm and your trying to end your name with a number.  If you use B1- as the name, then when you duplicate you will end up with B1-1, B1-2, etc.  If you use B1 and duplicate you will get B2, B3, B4, etc.  Consider adding a suffix separation character and you may end up with a better workflow.  Any non-numeric character should work as the suffix.

Sorry, you're Right, I do generally have B-1 so the duplicates become B-2, B-3, and although in the navigation pallete they are numbered correctly, all of the title blocks display B-1. This isn't great as the workshop only see the printed files and not the filenames.

2 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

It should just work, no user input required. Its those late nights you mention where I get bitten. It used to be fine so I'm pretty sure its a bug.... VW should just run the "refresh" automatically after duplicating a sheet and also before publishing.

Absolutely... We have "update viewport and plug in objects" before export or printing, so a quick rebuild of the title block database should cover this.... But I do remember that @JimWmentioned that a "fix has been found, but not implemented yet"  in this post

Why wouldn't it be implemented yet??? Crazy!

11 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

When I rename a sheet I shouldn't have to remove and re-add it to the publish list.

Tested at this end also... The Publish list can't find the sheet if it's renamed... Quite often sheet renaming is a requirement when working with outside parties, and it breaks saved sets and so on.

 

Thanks for looking into it though... I do love to hear "what's going on under the hood", as it increases my understanding of what's reasonable and what's not.

[PVA - Admin]

27 minutes ago, RussU said:

Why wouldn't it be implemented yet??? Crazy!

11 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

With some fixes, they touch too many parts of the software to be released to the public without extensive testing. Less commonly, it could be a fix brought about by a new iteration (or complete revamp) of a tooI or system, so it wouldn't be introduced in an older release. It irritates me too but the underlying logic is sound.

[Kevin McAllister]

1 hour ago, Pat Stanford said:

These two points confuse me.  First you say you want an exact duplicate and then in the next sentence say that the numbers should update. Does that not make it NOT an exact duplicate?

Pat,

I want an exact duplicate. Right now, VW does this -

1 hour ago, RussU said:

I have just tested it on a simple sheet... I have four viewports of a steel frame, numbered one to four... I make a duplicate and all new viewports on the new sheet are numbered as five... just tested on 2017, sp4.

It also happens when you option drag sheet layer viewports to copy them. If I option drag a single viewport VW will give it the next number in sequence. If I option drag two viewports it will give them both the next number in sequence, resulting in duplicate numbers. Its VW that is creating duplicate drawing numbers, not me.

 

I create full drawing sets from a model in a single day so duplicating viewports is an important (read as fast) workflow.

 

Kevin

 

[Kevin McAllister]

1 hour ago, JimW said:

With some fixes, they touch too many parts of the software to be released to the public without extensive testing. Less commonly, it could be a fix brought about by a new iteration (or complete revamp) of a tooI or system, so it wouldn't be introduced in an older release. It irritates me too but the underlying logic is sound.

 

Its an interesting conundrum. To my knowledge these bugs appeared in a SP of VW2016, not in a full release, so they were caused by "fixing" something else. I sure hope whatever the "fix" was fixing is worth all this trouble.... 

KM

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by Kevin McAllister