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How to remove unwanted lines in sheet layer viewport?

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*edited 28/06/18 - I have changed the title from "Annotations PDF output messy and imprecise" to something simpler in an attempt to get a response on this question*

 

This has been annoying me for a while. I've wondered if it's just me being pedantic, but this morning I got an email regarding a planning permission drawing I had submitted, asking if I could fix some linework because it didn't look like and was "imprecise". So, I don't think it's just me.

 

This wasn't a problem until I started generating elevations and sections from a 3d model, rather than drafting them manually in 2D. When you generate elevations in this way, there are often some lines you don't want, or missing lines that you do want. My method for fixing these (I can't seem to find a better one) is to do it in the annotations of the viewport. Where there's a missing bit of a line, I draw it on in the annotations layer, in the exact same lineweight as the "generated" lines, and snapping to those. So in theory, the join between the "generated" and "annotated" lines should be invisible. It isn't though; it never looks quite right, with the effect changing as you zoom in/out. This might be tolerable as long as the PDF output of the drawing - the one that I actually issue to people - were OK. But it's not; the same artifacts are visible in the PDF output.

 

Where there are lines that *shouldn't* be there, my solution is to blank them out with a white line in annotations. Using a white line of the same thickness in theory ought to make it invisible; in practice it doesn't. So instead I use a white line that's a bit thicker. This sort-of works. But also produces undesired artifacts. Some of which can be fixed by then drawing new correct lines on top. Soon you are chasing your tail covering up problems caused by attempts to mask other problems.

 

I'm going to post some screenshots of the particular case below.

 

This just isn't good enough. As far as I can make out there's no official way to correct errors in generated elevations. (I started a thread bout this previously, here). The method I am using causes new problems. The result of moving to a workflow where I generate drawings from a 3d model is that I am outputting drawings of lower quality than I was previously. It does create some time efficiencies but then much of this is lost if I then have to fiddle around doing fixes that don't quite work. In the end, to fix the drawing below, I masked off a whole section of it, and redrew it anew in the annotations.

 

One of Vectorworks' strengths is supposed to be the quality and controllability of the linework output. But it's lost when you start using the 3d workflow.

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I have also seen those kinds of issues including during standard drawing procedures. In the past, those were "screen resolution" issues and didn't show up once printed. I may have misssd the fact that these show up on prints now. Not sure if this only applies to annotations of section views though. Ugh. Thanks for pointing it out. 

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On 28/04/2017 at 11:12 PM, scottmoore said:

I have also seen those kinds of issues including during standard drawing procedures. In the past, those were "screen resolution" issues and didn't show up once printed. I may have misssd the fact that these show up on prints now. Not sure if this only applies to annotations of section views though. Ugh. Thanks for pointing it out. 

I think it may be the case that these things aren't really apparent on paper prints.

 

However, now virtually 100% of all drawings I produce are issued as PDFs. Sometimes only ever as PDFs, sometimes to accompany paper prints. In the past perhaps much of that PDF output would have been printed out at the other end but now I'm sure much of it is only ever viewed on screen.

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Does the issue resolve by printing to raster format (ie jpeg)? It might make an extra step, printing to jpeg then printing jpegs to pdf...just a thought..

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Just tried that.. the artefacts still there but rather less obvious. However, it gives a file size 10x as big, and text doesn't scale very nicely on screen, so not a very satisfactory solution.

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I'm resuscitating this thread in case anyone can suggest any solutions that might have appeared in the past year.

 

This issue remains one of my top five VW problems at the moment.

 

It's frustrating that it's virtually impossible to create a tidy looking drawing output when generating elevations and sections from a 3d model. The whole process falls at the last hurdle.

 

There also seems to be no acknowledgement from VW that this is a problem, or any suggestions (that I can find) as to how we are supposed to make minor corrections to linework on sheet layer viewports.

 

@JimW ?

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Some more examples, all I wanted to do here was blank out some lines. In the PDF output it looks ok-ish at one zoom level but not at the other (see the faint grey artefacts where the line should be fully blanked out)

 

 

Screen Shot 2018-06-20 at 10.44.00.jpg

Screen Shot 2018-06-20 at 10.44.20.jpg

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I've encountered missing door heads, the lines just disappear sometimes for no apparent reason. Sometimes they reappear.

 

One rather big issue for me is the autonomously changing surface hatch z value - the controls have absolutely no effect. Different DL hatches are not aligned. Another day they might be realigned again.

 

Currently the vw graphical system is so buggy it keeps astonishing me.

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On 6/20/2018 at 10:42 AM, line-weight said:

There also seems to be no acknowledgement from VW that this is a problem, or any suggestions (that I can find) as to how we are supposed to make minor corrections to linework on sheet layer viewports.

 

@JimW ?

 

 

Hopeful thread bump ... ?

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I'm voting the importance of this thread up and would encourage others to do the same. I think this is an issue that needs addressing.

 

Kevin

 

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Thanks @Kevin McAllister and @rDesign.

 

It seems to me that it's inevitable that sometimes we'll want to make some small changes to automatically generated linework in viewports. It's unreasonable to expect either the software or user to create a perfect output from a model every time.

 

So there just needs to be a means of making these small changes that doesn't mess things up.

 

I wonder if this thread needs a different title -

 

"How do I make small corrections to sheet layer viewport linework"

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I'll share here a solution to disappearing door and window head lines in orthogonal views:

 

The hidden line rendering smoothing angle default is 1 degrees in a new document. This is the culprit that causes some of the lines/edges to disappear.

 

After changing the smoothing angle to 0, all lines and edges are visible as they should. Please see the following screenshots.

 

840346195_0001smoothinganglesettodefault1.thumb.PNG.ed223619408fa2aee96d5b63bfba4c88.PNG1237849179_0002smoothinganglesetto0-dooropeningedgesappear.thumb.PNG.75ee3bd53d3a3fce722af52a0951648a.PNG

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Well this is strange. Suddenly my openGL windows edges were missing in orthogonal front view, and now that I change openGL smoothing angle to 1, the reappear.

 

As if the setting would have a different effect for hidden line and for openGL.

 

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Thanks for the comments @JMR - but that's not the problem that this thread is about. The problem is how to fix missing or unwanted lines that can't be solved by making changes to the model or rendering options.

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Well for me this was one of those very frequent things that caused the need to fix lines manually in viewports, therefore I thought it relevant.

 

A moderator can perhaps move these posts to their own thread, please.

Edited by JMR

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16 minutes ago, JMR said:

Well for me this was one of those very frequent things that caused the need to fix lines manually in viewports, therefore I thought it relevant.

 

A moderator can perhaps move these posts to their own thread, please.

Sure, what you describe is a problem I have too. Most recently, the other way around - viewports were showing multiple lines in elevation views of filleted edges made from extruded curves - I had to change the soothing angle from 1 to 3 to make them disappear, which doesn't seem like it should be the case.

 

As a matter of interest how do you go about fixing lines manually in viewports? Do you do it in annotations?

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