Mirror texture VW2017

[barkest]

Not sure what has happened to the mirror texture option in 2017 but it does not work for me. 

 

Screenshots below. The first is 2015 and how I expect it to work and the second is 2017. All parameters are set the same in both.

 

Could someone confirm this please?

 

thank you

[markdd]

First thing that springs to mind is your lighting might be very different. (Not in front of computer so can't test for myself)

[barkest]

Thanks but no lighting here just the VW default and ambient. Everything is set up the same

 

 

[barkest]

Ah ok its a bug (he says sticking his neck out) as I took the 2017 file and put it into 2015 and it worked fine.

[markdd]

If you post the file, I'll check with my install later this morning.

[barkest]

thank you

mirror.vwx

[Markvl]

@barkest I opened the file in 2017 and rendered it.  On first glance I didn't notice anything but looking closer the box is reflecting the cylinder though faintly.

[markdd]

I tried your file and all is fine. The colour in the texture is set top object attribute. If you turn the colour of your extruded rectangle to black then I get exactly the result as you see in the first of your pics.

Edited April 18, 2017 by markdd

[barkest]

thanks for trying but in 2015 the extruded rectangle is white but more importantly the reflection is much stronger than in 2017 (see attached). I honestly think its borked in 2017 and the reflection is almost semi-transparent when you compare the two.

 

thanks again

[PVA - Admin]

The mirror default color looks like it might have changed, in the Mirror reflectivity shader settings, is the color set to black in 2015 and white in 2017?

The default background reflection may have changed as well, solid white or solid black for the Renderworks background (in 2017 the reflection and the visible background can be separate, in 2015 they cannot) coupled with the black or white mirror color can get any combination of these appearances:

[barkest]

In 2015 the shader setting is white and in 2017 it is white also (exactly the same)

 

Not sure how I get at the default background colour in 2017?

[PVA - Admin]

Add a Renderworks Background, set to simply One Color and then a Black or White, compare the two and see how they appear. Once you double click the renderworks background to apply it, it becomes the default, you cant manually edit the default settings so a background has to be added, but you can also add it in a template so that you dont need to think about it in the future.

[PVA - Admin]

To clarify, they DO appear to be different, but I think this isn't a setting that can be overridden by default.

[barkest]

Ah ok when you said default background I thought there was a way of getting at it. Anyhow no change.

 

The issue I have here is that in 2017 the reflection is not as strong as 2015 and looks rather weak/washed out or that it has kind of a white film over it.

 

I have no idea why it has changed in versions which leads me to believe it is a bug?

[PVA - Admin]

What does it look like when you change the reflectivity color to Black? We had to alter some of the shader defaults, we had issues with "Perfect White" and "Perfect Black" causing problems when exporting to other applications that didn't allow those colors, might have changed how we handled that reflection color during that process.

[barkest]

Black = no reflection

[PVA - Admin]

Send me that test file please, thats not what im seeing here.

[barkest]

Attached - thank you

 

<edit> wrong file now changed

 

mirror v2017.vwx

Edited April 18, 2017 by barkest

[PVA - Admin]

Now I'm getting inconsistent results even after restarts with no other changes. There is definitely something broken. Going to see if I can nail it down and submit.

[PVA - Admin]

In a new doc in 2017, set your object color to Black, and your mirror reflectivity color to White. This should make a perfect mirror, but I've confirmed this behavior has changed since 2015. Its an ongoing discussion internally. VB-133392

[barkest]

Thanks but it is still not the same strength reflection as 2015. Its much weaker in its reflectivity and if I take this file 'as is' and place it into 2015 then the stronger reflection is back so something is broken.

 

Why change it if it was working fine?

 

thanks

[PVA - Admin]

It was not working, when we exported to some software with our default colors caused a number of issues, but it looks like the fix for these issues was not comprehensive. However, exporting to two versions prior is most likely not something that will be accepted as a bug, we will need to frame is as broken either when it's imported from 2015 > 2017, or that in 2017 alone the behavior is undesirable.

However when you say it isnt the same strength, I may misunderstand. I'm getting a perfectly reflective surface with black for the object color and white for the reflection color on an object in 2017 regardless of the selected background. Here an example with Physical Sky and one with simple Black single color:



 

 

 

File attached in 2017 format: 

mirror_test2.vwx

[zoomer]

Reflection Model HAS changed with VW 2017.

From mode "add" to "average" or similar or vice versa.

 

2017 Renders looked different than in previous VW versions as many experienced

when VW 2017 was revealed.

As I remember the examples at that time the Reflexions where increased in VW 2017

Which I think is wrong. As a Material can have either 100% reflection or 100% diffuse.

Not both. Otherwise it would be a Light source.

So if a Material is highly reflective like a mirror, it has to dim the diffuse color below the

reflection. (Not sure if that is the "average" setting in C4D that does this)

 

VW Materials (or C4D) do not have a true physical Layered Material Model, so you have to

decrease diffuse color manually.

So for metals, like the silver layer in a mirror is, the diffuse color is always black.

All appearance of the material comes by its reflection only

(Showing or ependent on the environment)

Edited April 18, 2017 by zoomer

[rDesign]

11 minutes ago, zoomer said:

Reflection Model HAS changed with VW 2017.

From mode "add" to "average" or similar or vice versa.

 

2017 Renders looked different than in previous VW versions as many experienced

when VW 2017 was revealed.

As I remember the examples at that time the Reflexions where increased in VW 2017

 

@zoomer- I think this is the thread you were referring to:

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by rDesign

[zoomer]

Yes.

 

And if like in the examples above, where the reflectance is less notable above the bright diffuse,

I think that is "more" better, as there will be less reflection when there is a bright diffuse color.

Although it should better cut down the white diffuse color by high reflection settings for the

mirror specular mode.