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Mickey

Automatic Data exchange with LW keeps stopping

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Is anyone else having this problem?

Every time I click back into VW from LW the data gets updated, then it unchecks the box.

So the next time I click into the LW there's no update.

Why?

Because data exchange has turned off.

Turn data exchange on, fresh export, save. Click into LW, update, click back in VW, update, off.

This is consistent across all of my drawings.

The real problem here is when changes are made on both sides after exchange has been disabled, and then there are conflicts.

58f103cc86369_dataexchange.jpg.bd34969c85424ef8f11c06de5d716c4d.jpg

Is anyone else seeing this?

I'd like some feed back here, before I submit yet ANOTHER bug report.

 

 

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Are you drawing inside some cloud backup program on your computer such as GDrive, Dropbox, etc? Anecdotally, I have found that pausing these programs while working helps tremendously.  

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Dear Mickey, I have the same issue with LW6 and VW 2017. Seems to be an issue with SP3.

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On 4/14/2017 at 9:17 PM, DCLD said:

Dear Mickey, I have the same issue with LW6 and VW 2017. Seems to be an issue with SP3.

SP3 has not been kind to us.

Can we re-install SP2?

 

On 4/14/2017 at 7:36 PM, BenV said:

Are you drawing inside some cloud backup program on your computer such as GDrive, Dropbox, etc? Anecdotally, I have found that pausing these programs while working helps tremendously.  

Yes, but that shouldn't matter.

I've been using cloud storage apps for years without a problem..

 

I will submit a bug report as it's happening to others as well.

 

 

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I'm not sure if this post belongs here, but I've actually been able to get LW5 to work with VWX2017 on the macOS Sierra, contrary to the claims on LW website that it does not operate on the new macOS.

 

I think it happened after the first or second macOS Sierra update. Submitted a post on LW forums to ask for verification but I guess LW forums aren't as active. 

 

There might be some tools that I'm unaware of on LW5 that isn't working, but I've managed to sync showfiles on LW5 and VWX2017 with hundreds of fixtures without any problem thus far. (Fingers crossed I don't actually jinx this!)

 

Maybe fall back on LW 5 for the time being if LW6 and VWX2017 SP3 don't play nice together?

 

Gabriel

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The data exchange is probably being turned off because Vectorworks cannot write the the data exchange file because it gets locked by GDrive, Dropbox, etc. 

When Vectorworks cannot write the the file the exchange is turned off otherwise Vectorworks can slow down significantly as it continues to try to write to a file that is not writable.

Vectorworks does not know why that the file is locked only that it can't modify the file so it stops trying.

Both Vectorworks and Lightwright recommend against keeping the exchange file in GDrive, Dropbox, etc. because of the file locking problem caused by these services.

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On 28/04/2017 at 5:04 AM, klinzey said:

The data exchange is probably being turned off because Vectorworks cannot write the the data exchange file because it gets locked by GDrive, Dropbox, etc. 

When Vectorworks cannot write the the file the exchange is turned off otherwise Vectorworks can slow down significantly as it continues to try to write to a file that is not writable.

Vectorworks does not know why that the file is locked only that it can't modify the file so it stops trying.

Both Vectorworks and Lightwright recommend against keeping the exchange file in GDrive, Dropbox, etc. because of the file locking problem caused by these services.

Hi having had this issue where VW 2017 Sp3 turns off XML communication with LW, I can confirm, that I have no G drive or dropbox etc in my system. This happened to me about a dozen times. Its interesting that you say VW turns off functions when you slow down as during my interaction with VW support I have turned graphics card to 'Good performance and compatibility'. This seems to have fixed the XML issue. Very sad that my 2015 MacBook pro which has the fastest graphics card and ram that you can buy requires this to run smoothly and to allow XML communication. 

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I've noticed this happening with certain fields such as "Address".  I check the sync settings in LW and the "Address" field was not in the EXPORT column.  Once I moved it over and did a full export it seemed to solve the issue. 

 

Perhaps check that all important fields are in the EXPORT column in LW?

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19 hours ago, c_harding said:

I've noticed this happening with certain fields such as "Address".  I check the sync settings in LW and the "Address" field was not in the EXPORT column.  Once I moved it over and did a full export it seemed to solve the issue. 

 

Perhaps check that all important fields are in the EXPORT column in LW?

That's an interesting observation. I'll try that.

 

On 5/3/2017 at 11:20 PM, DCLD said:

Hi having had this issue where VW 2017 Sp3 turns off XML communication with LW, I can confirm, that I have no G drive or dropbox etc in my system. This happened to me about a dozen times. Its interesting that you say VW turns off functions when you slow down as during my interaction with VW support I have turned graphics card to 'Good performance and compatibility'. This seems to have fixed the XML issue. Very sad that my 2015 MacBook pro which has the fastest graphics card and ram that you can buy requires this to run smoothly and to allow XML communication. 

Thanks for confirming this. I've used the various storage drives with no issues for all of 2016, and the early part of 2017, but with the SP3 is where it went to hell. I love an update that breaks things.

 

 

 

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I thought I'd follow up with a post about a year later.

This is still a problem even with 2018 sp3.

On 4/27/2017 at 12:04 PM, klinzey said:

The data exchange is probably being turned off because Vectorworks cannot write the the data exchange file because it gets locked by GDrive, Dropbox, etc. 

When Vectorworks cannot write the the file the exchange is turned off otherwise Vectorworks can slow down significantly as it continues to try to write to a file that is not writable.

Vectorworks does not know why that the file is locked only that it can't modify the file so it stops trying.

Both Vectorworks and Lightwright recommend against keeping the exchange file in GDrive, Dropbox, etc. because of the file locking problem caused by these services.

I was reading through this response, and have a hard time buying into it.

If a cloud service was locking the files we wouldn't be able to write to any of them from any program.

I'm going to try putting the exchange file on my desktop to see if that does anything.

Considering how stupid my work flow is with VW2018, project sharing, LW, and MA export adding this extra step isn't that big of deal.

 

 

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On 04/04/2018 at 3:04 AM, Mickey said:

Considering how stupid my work flow is with VW2018, project sharing, LW, and MA export adding this extra step isn't that big of deal.

 

http://www.mckernon.com/

 

LW is not compatible with project sharing to begin with. Explicitly stated on LW website. I've had to choose between project sharing and LW sync for a relatively large show - around 800 fixtures. Decided to give up project sharing over LW sync. Too painful to not automate paperwork at that fixture count. 

 

Gabriel

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On 4/3/2018 at 3:04 PM, Mickey said:

If a cloud service was locking the files we wouldn't be able to write to any of them from any program.

Though true, the cloud service doesn't keep the files locked. The files get locked while the file it syncing with any/all local hard drive folders. So, if I have three computers with locally synced folders, anytime any of them are doing an active sync with said file, that file gets locked. Then unlocked when done. The chances of the xml, Lightwright, VW to done an active update of any of these files at the same time, across several computers is fairly high. If anyone of them gets an error, it may turn off the connection, etc.

 

Best, Scott

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I don't have a good way to test this, but it would seem to me that everyone could keep their own LW file on the local disc.  All data would be shared via Vectorworks file.  All the esoteric data that is only in the LW file, doesn't need to be shared, even between designer and electrician.  As for others they won't have a LW file to worry about.  I don't have the any opportunity to use project sharing, so, am I missing something?

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On 6/21/2018 at 2:21 PM, Sam Jones said:

I don't have a good way to test this, but it would seem to me that everyone could keep their own LW file on the local disc.  All data would be shared via Vectorworks file.  All the esoteric data that is only in the LW file, doesn't need to be shared, even between designer and electrician.  As for others they won't have a LW file to worry about.  I don't have the any opportunity to use project sharing, so, am I missing something?

 

That would work only if every time you changed anything in Vectorworks, it exported *all* data for *all* lights. That would make it glacial and be the equivalent of the old export-and-merge method. Data Exchange relies on their being only ONE .vwx file and ONE .lw6 file, which share data with each other. The .xml file is maintained for ONE user, with Vectorworks and Lightwright on the same computer. If someone else simply opens a remotely located .vwx or .lw6 file that has Data Exchange active, their copy of VW or LW would get the data out of the .xml file so it wouldn't be there for the intended user, resulting in chaotic data and nothing useful.

 

And Project Sharing cannot be used with Data Exchange. Ever.

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I would think that you wouldn't need to export all, but could work normally.  The work file is a normal file.  So the following would or would not work.

1. Open the local LW file.

2. Open the VW work file

3. download (check out layers ) changes from VW project file.

4. do a complete export to LW.

5. from then on work normally in the LW and VW local files.

6. At end of session upload (check in layers) the work file (commit changes).

 

No?

 

Sam.

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And suppose there are lights on more than one layer, and you don't check out all of them?

 

Or another example - you do work in Lightwright, on your computer, so changes you made are in your copy of the .xml, but because Vectorworks isn't open it hasn't processed the .xml file and cleared it out, etc.. Meanwhile, someone else does what you suggest, and makes changes. Their changes are now in the .vwx file (assuming they clicked back on Vectorworks). So now you open the .vwx file (with project sharing or not), so the changes you made are read by Vectorworks, but because Vectorworks has already processed the other person's changes, you don't hear about any of those changes.

 

The more cases you start to consider, the worse it gets. You're welcome to try and make this work, but I can guarantee there WILL BE PROBLEMS. I've heard about them for years now, there are no workarounds.

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I think dictatorial project management can solve this.  If my suggested workflow is followed, just be sure that all lighting layers are checked out.  Even that might not be necessary.  If I am working on a set of lighting layers, I would do all my work traveling back and forth between LW and VW.  When I'm done, I commit my changes in VW.  The changes I made get absorbed.  I would need to check other lighting layers to get them in my plot if others had worked on them while I had left them behind.  Obviously this could get dicey, but doable.  A better workflow is the one above and the rule that all lighting layers are checked out and checked in.  This should be easily understood.  It will be frustrating when the ME and the LD are wanting to pass things back and forth, but there are some real benefits especially when other departments are working on the same drawing.  The important thing is not to try and share LW and XML files; information sharing should only occur through the checking out of VW layers.  

This does mean rigorous adherence to project sharing rules is required.  If it is just an ME and LD sharing plot, I think it would be better to do without project sharing, but if Lighting, rigging, audio, scenery, venue setup, and the TD are all running around the drawing project sharing is very alluring to me; keep LW and the XML files on local computers only.

HUGE CAVEAT:  I've never done this.

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23 hours ago, Sam Jones said:

The important thing is not to try and share LW and XML files; information sharing should only occur through the checking out of VW layers.  

This does mean rigorous adherence to project sharing rules is required.  If it is just an ME and LD sharing plot, I think it would be better to do without project sharing, but if Lighting, rigging, audio, scenery, venue setup, and the TD are all running around the drawing project sharing is very alluring to me; keep LW and the XML files on local computers only.

HUGE CAVEAT:  I've never done this.

 

When you've done this successfully (with a full production team), please let me know.

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