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barkest

Renderworks - is it worth the effort

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This is a big part of my everyday workflow....i have been trying to work with renderworks a lot more these days...but still wonder back to artlantis..https://artlantis.com/gallery/

its just so easy to control the lighting with a real time window....my frustration with renderworks is the test renders to really see how the scene will really look are really a full render situation....test rendering is ok but it never really gives you that final result.....especially when you enable some of the final lighting options.....the way forward with  renderworks is to have this real time window

to give the user the confidence to see every texture and lighting changes they make..... i would advise anyone to download a free copy of artlantis to see this feature...and the export plug in from vectorworks to artlantis makes it super easy to model in VW and then export to artlantis.....just give every surface a class in VW no need to apply any textures just a solid colour and when the file opens in artlantis you will see the class colour and just drag a texture onto that surface....this example was modelled and rendered in just under 2 hours using vw and artlantis

 

CAM1.jpg

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I'm trialling Artlantis now - but struggling to get on with it.  Can't seem to find any good tutorials on how to work with Vectorworks to Artlantis.

 

For example - when I open a large VWX file, in the Objects section (which I was expecting to see a list of all the items I can texture in Artlantis) I just see VWExport. See screenshot.

 

 

Am sure I am missing something and need to spend some more time working through it properly though.

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2017-03-20 at 17.36.39.png

Edited by Andrew Davies

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you need to be in shaders to see the materials...objects are different.....but you must for every item you create give it a class......doesn't matter if its mat-1  mat-2 and so on   so create a wall for instance and then give it a class name of wall 1....and so on

but if you have numerous walls for instance painted white...just make 1 class called white paint and assign all your items you want white to this class.....speeds thing up in artlantis cause you only have one drag and drop and everything in that class will change all at once......

objects are a bit like symbols....you can model a desk in Vectorworks and then export to Atlantis apply all your texture....logos....ect and then save it as an atlo file......add this to your Atlantis library and you can drag and drop this as many times as you require into the main model......then over time you can create a library of your everyday objects.......i know it's easy for me as i have worked on the programme for over 18 years....but if you can stick at it....you will love it.....anytime you need any help just pm me and i will do my best to help you out 

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I am committed to RW for now after some of the advice in the thread. Artlantis is my plan B but I guess learning the basics/tech side in RW will set me up for Artlantis anyhow so nothing lost

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I would love to work with Artlantis but am committed to C4d.  I rarely use Renderworks for "realistic renderings."  Renderworks to me has much more value in controlling Viewport renderings, as an illustration tool. 

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Here is my workflow as I need to test material and lights in Renderworks:

 

I set up a viewport, say 7" x 4", set resolution to less than 50dpis and render using fast Renderworks or a render style but don't use high results (shadows, blur, etc) and do not check antialiasing, don't need it. Also, if I use a render style go for the "render preview". These settings will give me a pretty good idea where I stand in terms of materials, light, camera view, etc.

Once I am confident with then I create a larger page, say C size and set resolution to 300dpi and I let it cook, like I said before, here is where I use the cloud to my advantage.

 

Back in the days I used and promoted Artlantis intensively, did my tour, learn the knowledge and provided the services needed, can't complained. But my clients after selling the idea of the project needed to move on to construction docs and that's when I wished I had the best of two worlds in a single solution. Now, things are different, I can render, produce drawings, and estimates and all for the same price and without leaving my environment, is it worth the effort? I'd say certainly, designers who know all aspects of this application are appreciated and very valuable around the globe.

I get to see this first hand.

 

Now, what I'd really like is to see animation done here but that is my secret wish :)  until then C4D all the way.

 

 

58d1329130572_ScreenShot2017-03-21at9_59_55AM.png.0cd3144e7aae9b74133a6fa649c4583e.png58d132932817e_ScreenShot2017-03-21at10_00_25AM.png.1eab5ec8535af93be68632dc72a7b083.png58d132951247c_ScreenShot2017-03-21at10_00_06AM.png.8fb8472b153c48a8eeb3226cdbd06bcd.png

ArboledaC4D animation.mov

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Luis M Ruiz
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I do think RW has come a long way since I first started using it.  Here are my reasons why I don't feel comfortable with it:

-The lights are poor.  Not being able to set the falloff distance and type is a huge disadvantage. 

-The textures are missing a lot of channels. 

-Polygonal based models are not workable in VW.  Once I start adding furniture/appliances etc, there is no point in being VW.  As a solids modeller, it just cannot handle polys. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, grant_PD said:

I do think RW has come a long way since I first started using it.  Here are my reasons why I don't feel comfortable with it:

-The lights are poor.  Not being able to set the falloff distance and type is a huge disadvantage. 

-The textures are missing a lot of channels. 

-Polygonal based models are not workable in VW.  Once I start adding furniture/appliances etc, there is no point in being VW.  As a solids modeller, it just cannot handle polys. 

 

Similar to my own experiences. Cameras are similarly downgraded.

 

23 minutes ago, Luis M Ruiz said:

Now, what I'd really like is to see animation done here but that is my secret wish :)  until then C4D all the way.

 

Nice demo Luis. Personally I'd like to see the basics fixed in VW first and the conduit between C4D continue to improve. I already own C4D and since I've paid for it I should be able to unlock more of its power in VW. Honestly the C4D interface for animation is so much better I can't see why NV would spend time on that.

 

Kevin

 

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An important part of modeling and texturing items is knowing the pros and cons of mapping behavior on certain objects, mesh, polys, nurbs, etc.

Recently more and more I rely on subdivision objects to get me the solid shapes I need and later convert it o a mesh or whatever is required.

 

Here is a sample of how a tailored scene started with a simple subdivision sofa and some light and texturing control.

 

Screen Shot 2017-03-21 at 10.27.40 AM.png

Screen_Shot_2017-03-21_at_10_18.16_AM.png

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Which I think is fantastic modelling in VW, and a nice render too.  But when I am working with a client it is much easier to just go to TurboSquid and get the furniture I need.  There is an ecosystem of assets available to 3d renderers that VW doesn't have.  And to me, soft lighting is much harder to control in RW because of the falloff. 

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That is a super pro for the software, the ability to import different formats and I am sure the list will keep expanding.

58d14130c09b8_ScreenShot2017-03-21at11_05_07AM.png.2b28a83ca308e4c6a9a8fc2cd493496a.png

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Luis 

 

you render looks fine but try matching textures on there now that are not solid colour (an obvious pattern repeat of flowers for example). It can't be done currently as no UV mapping is possible. This is where it all falls down with Sub-D unfortunately.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Luis M Ruiz said:

let me share the secret recipe for this small model:

Screen_Shot_2017-03-21_at_10_43.54_AM.png.c14aac4d8cad56ec74ab51b502b8ccde.png

 

Very nice Luis.

How did you get Vw to texture that SubDiv -> Mesh sofa that well?

Did you do everything in this image 100% inside Vw?

Edited by rDesign

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On 3/14/2017 at 8:19 AM, rDesign said:

 

^^^^ I completely disagree with this statement. Just because Vw uses the C4D engine does not mean that we have full access to C4D's abilities. Far from it, we only have access to a small percentage of what Cinema4D can do. For example, textures in Cinema4D can have multiple layers, which can add the dirt and grime that you're describing: Vw cannot have more than one texture layer. 

Actually you can have more than one layer in Renderworks, by using the Decal feature.

Dan J.

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Yes, you can add a decal.  In C4d one can have multiple layers of reflectance, normal maps, subsurface scattering, etc. That Renderworks uses the C4d engine does not mean that it can use all of the features of that engine. 

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Nice sofa Luis :)

 

Its a technique that I am still perfecting but I can do a semi-decent job of texturing a Sub-D object in PhotoShop. The idea is in its early stages so we will see...

 

.OBJ > PhotoShop > .OBJ > VW

 

 

Screen Shot 2017-03-21 at 17.28.33.png

Edited by barkest

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Remember I mentioned, starting a sofa with subdivision but then transform it to another object depending on the mapping capabilities. In the case of this object the sofa got converted to a mesh.

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Nice scene. I'd be curious what a hidden line drawing of the same scene looks like...... My big problem with meshes in VW as they don't hold up in a drawing set. In my trade, the furniture/props/artifacts are just as important as the architecture and are usually included in hidden line drawings.

 

Kevin

 

Edited by Kevin McAllister

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