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mgries

Notes Manager & Notes Legend - duplicating callouts

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I've been getting more comfortable with Notes manager tool, but there's clearly a lot of improvements that are needed. The thing really frustrating me is this:

 

I often take a series of notes from the database, modify these notes, and then populate a notes legend on my sheet based on the modified notes. This works well when creating the initial callout for a particular modified note.  

 

However, I don't see a clear way to "reuse" a modified note via the notes manager.

 

Other than copying and pasting the particular callout annotation, what's the best way to repeatedly use the same callout number/reference as identified in the notes legend? Reusing the actual callout tool (which would be preferred) doesn't seem to provide a path to this. Am I missing something, or is this a wishlist issue? In the notes manager dialogue box, I'd expect to see the list of notes currently active on that sheet as a way to identify a new callout. Even if the notes weren't modified, and can therefore be reused from the master database, it would still be very helpful to see an "active notes" list to speed up selection. 

 

Thanks,
Matt

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22 hours ago, mgries said:

Other than copying and pasting the particular callout annotation, what's the best way to repeatedly use the same callout number/reference as identified in the notes legend?

 

I think this is currently the only way to use the same callout number / reference : Copy and Paste.

 

There is much room for improvement in the Notes Manager.

 

If you do 'Copy and Paste' Callouts, be aware that Dragged Copies of Callouts Lose Text Style and the Notes Manager doesn't Maintain first 42 Characters Setting When Copying Callouts

 

(Please go over to both of those linked threads and vote them 'up' so maybe they can be fixed).

 

Edited by rDesign
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I find it particularly annoying that the 42 character setting does not refresh after copying a note then editing it. Geez, how difficult can it be for programmers to correct?

Ok, back to work.

 

Edited by RGyori
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@RGyori- the main reason that the copied Callout 'Use 42 character' issue is not being addressed by Vw is that it is "working as designed". Here is a quote from that other thread by @JimW:

Quote

It isn't considered a "bug" at the moment, the argument internally here is which way is preferable and we are taking input. Currently there are only a few states for issues that come directly from users: "Wishlist" "Bug" and response states of "Works as Designed" "Will Fix" "Wont Fix", so whenever we get to something like this where it would effectively be "Design Might Be Wrong" it needs to be filed as bugs to become ammunition for one side or the other in the debate.

 

The only way this will be corrected is if enough users complain about the current functionality. Please follow the link to that other thread and vote it up so we can have our voices heard.

Edited by rDesign
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Am I to assume that most people have adopted the following callout tool/notes manager workflow:

  1. callouts are being placed in annotative viewports
  2. keynotes are being linked to "default legend"
  3. each legend on each sheet has an independent list with "N/A" gaps deleted.
  4. callouts are copied and pasted and re-edited on the fly to create new callouts
  5. Base on #4, no new notes are being added to a central database file.
  6. Based on #5, if you want to use the same keynote already used somewhere else, you have to into the first viewport, copy note, go out of viewport, maybe switch sheets, go into new viewport, and then paste.

Personally, I've been trying to grow the central database as I go, and then create new callouts using the database each time, not copy & paste, which I think is how VW wants it to be used. My grief with doing it this way of course, is having to scroll through the non-user friendly database UI each time I drop a note. I just wish VW allowed you to see only the list of notes that are currently in use, whether centrally databased or not. I think it would make for a halfway decent workflow, and would reduce the reliance on a copy & paste workflow. It is my general understanding that BIM is continually pushing us away from copy & paste routines.

 

p.s.- I would love someone to explain how the legend part of notes is supposed to work best. If you have 4 sheets of Elevations, are you NOT supposed to see the same list of notes on each sheet? Do you point all your Elevation notes to the same legend? The whole thing seems very slippery to me, which is one of the reasons I'm trying to stick to a central database. I think it's easier to coordinate multiple legends this way, but I'm still in the R&D phase on this. Am I going in the wrong direction?

 

p.p.s. - "Align/Distribute Leader Lines" command is a great tool that further alleviates the age-old impulse to copy & paste existing callouts. You can move very quickly this way, when you don't have to worry about how neat your callouts look at first.

 

thanks!

mg

Edited by mgries

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44 minutes ago, mgries said:

I would love someone to explain how the legend part of notes is supposed to work best. If you have 4 sheets of Elevations, are you NOT supposed to see the same list of notes on each sheet? Do you point all your Elevation notes to the same legend?

 

I have never had much luck with SLVP Annotation Keynotes pointing to Keynote legends on different sheets. There is no way to have the Keynote Legends on multiple sheets reflect any added or revised Keynote changes made to any of the sheets.

 

Currently, if you make any changes to Keynotes on Sheets B, C or D, you have to go back to the central Keynote Legend located on Sheet A, and re-copy it to Sheets B, C and D after every change. (This would be made easier if you could create a SLVP referencing another Sheet Layer, but you cannot).

 

Ideally, yes — those 4 sheets of Elevations should point to the exact same list of Keynotes. This workflow would make sense if the Keynote Legends were Resources that could be placed on multiple sheets, but currently they are not Resources.

 

When I have needed multiple elevations sheets to look at  the same set of Keynotes, I do not use Keynotes in my SLVP Annotations. Instead — I do all of my Keynote annotations on a Design Layer, and then I create a SLVP of that Keynote Legend an place it on each of the multiple elevation sheets.

 

I would also love someone from Vectorworks to reply to your question:

44 minutes ago, mgries said:

I would love someone to explain how the legend part of notes is supposed to work best. If you have 4 sheets of Elevations, are you NOT supposed to see the same list of notes on each sheet?

 

Edited by rDesign
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6 minutes ago, rDesign said:

When I have needed multiple elevations sheets to look at  the same set of Keynotes, I do not use Keynotes in my SLVP Annotation. Instead — I do all of my Keynote annotations on a Design Layer, and then I create a SLVP of that Keynote Legend an place it on each of the multiple elevation sheets.

ugggggh.

Doesn't that mean you would have to duplicate your Section/Elevation Viewport, one for a DLVP (to place your annotations accurately), and one for the official SLVP?

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16 minutes ago, rDesign said:

Ideally, yes — those 4 sheets of Elevations should point to the exact same list of Keynotes. This workflow would make sense if the Keynote Legends were Resources that could be placed on multiple sheets, but currently they are not Resources.

Agreed. You should be able to name the keynote legend and then simply allow user to check off multiple sheets the legend appears on, similar to instances of section callout markers.

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11 minutes ago, mgries said:

Agreed. You should be able to name the keynote legend and then simply allow user to check off multiple sheets the legend appears on, similar to instances of section callout markers.

^^^^ I agree 100%.

 

I started a similar Wishlist item for this last year that has not gotten much interest: 

Make General Notes and Keynote Legends into Resources

Edited by rDesign

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19 minutes ago, mgries said:

ugggggh.

Doesn't that mean you would have to duplicate your Section/Elevation Viewport, one for a DLVP (to place your annotations accurately), and one for the official SLVP?

To be honest I have not tried using DL Keynote Legends with Section or Elevation VPs, only with floor plan keynote annotations. It would complicated, at best, as you rightly suggest.

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10 minutes ago, rDesign said:

^^^^ I agree 100%.

 

I started a similar Wishlist item for this last year that has not gotten much interest: 

Make General Notes and Keynote Legends into Resources

I'm not so sure Keynote Legends need to be a typical Resource necessarily. I'd be happy to see the Notes Manager evolve into a much more robust tool, where you can easily SEARCH, FILTER, EDIT AND DISTRIBUTE ALL ASPECTS OF NOTES, including Legends. There are so many relationships at play, I feel notes need their own special environment.

 

I guess this is all wish list stuff....while we're at it, I also wish there were an OIP checkbox for note callouts to produce the text "TYP." next to it.

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This is how we use the Callout/Notes Manager to only have one legend for the whole set of drawings.

After we place the first callout, we move the legend on to a design layer, and then we viewport that legend on to whatever sheet we want to see it on.

The callouts are placed on to design layers and/or sheet layers (in the annotation space).  Once we have one callout placed, we just copy and paste it as required and update the callout text from the Database.  If we need another Note, we add it on the fly in the Notes Manager.

Note, we use the 'Description' field for numbering the callouts - so they are manually numbered in the format we want.

It's a bit cumbersome, but it works.  Ideally, the callouts would be always linked to the database, so if the database changed, the callouts would change too. Sadly it doesn't work this way and once you've placed a callout, it is no longer linked to the database.

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1 hour ago, BG said:

After we place the first callout, we move the legend on to a design layer, and then we viewport that legend on to whatever sheet we want to see it on.

this is a good idea Journeyman! I'm going to try this and see how things unfold...

I'm wondering, are there any scripts or marionettes out there that would take all active notes in a file and write them to a separate database in order to address the linkage issue? This could potentially complete the workflow loop, would it not?

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