Phil hunt

to renew or not to renew (that is the question)

78 posts in this topic

well its that time again....should i renew my vss....at 

 £ 550.80

Unfortunately i have never used my V17 release as artlantis render did not provide an export plug in from v17 to artlantis 5...(shameful)  but today i have ordered the artlantis upgrade v6.5....which is compatible to v17

problem solved.....but will there be enough features in the next Vectorworks for me to pay my subscription fees for another 12 months .......i have posted this question before so no yawns please! LOL.....i don't use any of the phone line help so it seems to me that i need some at least an appetizer of maybe some of the new features for v18 to maybe sway me towards i feel a hefty payment.....not as i am saying it's not worth it...if you use

it frequently.....so Vectorworks....a taster of what to come please   many thanks 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

V18 info, yes, would be helpful. I have to say, I'm a VW fan, but the way the invoice is presented, it doesn't exactly fill me with a warm rosy feeling. It would be nice to be reminded of the benefits of renewing before being asked for the money!

 

Mark

PS - biggest help I find is the VW forum...is the Vectorworks forum available only to VSS subscribers?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The forum is available even to those who do not own Vectorworks and I intend to keep it that way. Someday there may be additional forum features linked to Service Select accounts, but I would never approve of removing existing resources from the hands of anyone just because they didn't subscribe.

No word on 2018 features yet, and to be perfectly honest you shouldn't expect a dramatic departure from previous years where we shared a bit a few months in advance of release, but I hope to slowly increase how much is shared and how early. It won't happen all at once though.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree the forum and all its kind members is great value for money.....

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't get super specific in pricing discussions here, but I'll break it down as far as I can without going into hard numbers, since those vary from country to country based on local distributor pricing, the exchange rate against the US dollar, and other economic variables:

 

The main drive I see for users subscribing when they don't use the Service Select portal or phone support is the pricing system. If for instance you were already going to upgrade every year, the cheapest way to do that is to subscribe even if you don't use anything else that comes with a subscription. There is still a significant benefit in staying subscribed if you only upgrade every other version, but I believe for users that upgrade only once every three versions then the margin gets a little narrower and they should carefully do the math on upgrade pricing every 3 years as opposed to maintaining a subscription for that same period. If you upgrade only every 4-5 years then I believe there is no price benefit at all to Service Select, but those users are extremely rare, most upgrade at least every 3 years.

 

Now, keep in mind, the logic above is going off of current pricing sheet I have in my office for the United States and doesn't reflect any discounts or promotions that sales is running, which they do very frequently., distributors have control over their own pricing structures and nothing I say here should be taken as a price quote for the US or otherwise.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another added benefit,is that you get content about every two months that is not available to non-Subscribers.  and now with the Resources Manager, you get it right into the program, no longer having to deal with the Portal.  For Spotlight, this often means getting up to date symbols before the product is out of date.

 

Rob.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My VSS is up for renewal too. The pricing has been pretty consistent over the years and I know my distributor is fighting a losing battle with the exchange rate between the Canadian and US dollars. I expect Phil may be seeing the same sort of exchange issue given that the pound tanked after the Brexit vote. I find VW an important tool so I will keep my subscription current.

 

I agree that the timing of my renewal isn't great in relationship to the VW development cycle specifically when it comes to information about the new version. This is entirely on NV since they initially delayed implementing VSS in Canada. I believe most of the American subscriptions are on a September cycle for renewal. My C4D schedule is much better, where I have full information about the new version (usually July) before my renewal in late August.

 

Kevin

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

 

I agree that the timing of my renewal isn't great in relationship to the VW development cycle specifically when it comes to information about the new version. This is entirely on NV since they initially delayed implementing VSS in Canada. I believe most of the American subscriptions are on a September cycle for renewal. My C4D schedule is much better, where I have full information about the new version (usually July) before my renewal in late August.

 

 

I'd actually been meaning to take a look at this. Currently the contract renewal date is simply pegged to the date at which the user last purchased or upgraded their contract. It happens to fall most commonly I think in mid September and late December, but I'm pretty sure this is just because of the hype surrounding release driving more upgrades and new users as well as the major discounts offered near the end of the fiscal year.

However, it seems to me that letting users select their own date (not constantly let them change it to abuse the system of course, but allow them to alter every few renewals or so) to fit not only their own work schedules but also sync up with development cycles if they follow them closely or use the feature lists to decide if they're going to upgrade that year or not as many users do. I do know that many different purchasing models and pricing systems are being looked into as future options but I am not sure if the date itself is being considered. I'll give those folks running those projects a poke and see.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, JimW said:

 

I'd actually been meaning to take a look at this. Currently the contract renewal date is simply pegged to the date at which the user last purchased or upgraded their contract. It happens to fall most commonly I think in mid September and late December, but I'm pretty sure this is just because of the hype surrounding release driving more upgrades and new users as well as the major discounts offered near the end of the fiscal year.

However, it seems to me that letting users select their own date (not constantly let them change it to abuse the system of course, but allow them to alter every few renewals or so) to fit not only their own work schedules but also sync up with development cycles if they follow them closely or use the feature lists to decide if they're going to upgrade that year or not as many users do. I do know that many different purchasing models and pricing systems are being looked into as future options but I am not sure if the date itself is being considered. I'll give those folks running those projects a poke and see.

 

Contrary to my original comments, there are some good things about when my renewal date falls. When I make the renewal the decision is entirely based on how I feel about VW as a tool, not about what the next development cycle will bring. Honestly when I compare the cost to how much I use VW, its not that bad. It also means when the September release comes around it feels like Christmas since it feels like its "free" :-)

 

KM

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that's a good point kevin...i guess £46.00 a month is not a bad price....just wish i could spread this across 12 months like my adobe subscription.....just softens the blow a bit.....i know when the time comes around for the new release i will kick myself if there's something in the new release that would have benefited me.....my main operation is 3d modelling and plans in that order, i find the software the best out there for my particular needs....thanks

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Phil hunt said:

.i guess £46.00 a month is not a bad price....just wish i could spread this across 12 months like my adobe subscription.....just softens the blow a bit


This is something I personally believe we should offer as a purchasing option.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only people I wouldn't recommend upgrading regularly are those who only work in 2D. And if you are doing anything more complicated that line drawings (Process flow diagrams [PFDs], Pipe and Instrument Diagram [P&IDs], electrical plans, flow charts) I would probably recommend that you upgrade regularly.

 

If you are doing primarily 3D, they you should certainly plan on upgrading.  All of the newer 3D stuff is still in the process of being improved. I know NOTHING (hat tip to Sgt. Schultz, was Hogan's Heros ever shown in the UK?), but I would be tremendously disappointed and shocked if there are not more substantial improvements in the next version to Subdivision objects, Curtain Walls, Rendering.

 

My $0.02.

 

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm quite satisfied now with SubD 2.0

(since custom geometry and bridging available)

 

What do you miss ?

 

 

As long as I use VW often enough, I want a current VW, so I prefer Service Select.

A bit cheaper and less things to care or to decide.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Three simple things in VW2017 easily made subscribing to VSS worth it - tabbed documents on a Mac, direct access to drawing titles for basic viewports and moving the name field to the main tab of the OIP..... if we get ongoing housekeeping to improve small longstanding issues I'll be happy.

 

KM

 

58af5f3648875_ScreenShot2017-02-23at2_12_24PM.png.7ca08019fd23ee8e7b3f0b80d0c5639e.png

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

 I would be tremendously disappointed and shocked if there are not more substantial improvements in the next version to Subdivision objects, Curtain Walls, Rendering.

 

My $0.02.

 

 

 

Just curious...  What makes you think that curtain walls would make the targeted improvement list.  I personally would be thrilled, but I would bet that something "more exciting" would be a priority.   

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still struggle wth the subdivision tool I would like this to as easy as the FORM Z software it has pull handles in all directions and is very easy to manipulate.....I did post a screen grab some time ago it's a great feature ....that's one area I think could be developed which would certainly make my life a bit easier when modelling ergonomic shapes.....not complaining....just an observation 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JimW said:


This is something I personally believe we should offer as a purchasing option.

 

I would suggest that if this was an option, it would be reasonable to expect more folks would choose to be part of service select. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I might regret saying this, but I would accept paying more per month if Vectorworks were made more intuitive and user friendly, and demonstrably increased my productivity. CAVEAT: I would pay MORE to develop the product tools and user interface, NOT to fund a help desk for when tools either don't work (as I'd expect them to) or I can't easily work out how to use them

 

Edited by MRD Mark Ridgewell
clarity
3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, MRD Mark Ridgewell said:

CAVEAT: I would pay MORE to develop the product tools and user interface, NOT to fund a help desk for when tools either don't work (as I'd expect them to) or I can't easily work out how to use them

 

 

Hmmm, I would definitely pay a little more if it went to growing @JimW's team. Its how the first part of what you asked for will happen -

 

6 hours ago, MRD Mark Ridgewell said:

I might regret saying this, but I would accept paying more per month if Vectorworks were made more intuitive and user friendly, and demonstrably increased my productivity.

 

 

Kevin

 

Edited by Kevin McAllister
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair comment. I don't know how VW currently test product, but 'UX' web/ app design offers some interesting techniques, eg. observing users performing set tasks and A/B testing alternative software versions?

 

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, cberg said:

 

Just curious...  What makes you think that curtain walls would make the targeted improvement list.  I personally would be thrilled, but I would bet that something "more exciting" would be a priority.   

Firstly that so many people are complaining about it. It makes me think that there is room for improvement. Second, it is a relatively new tool, it was only introduced in 2016. Usually it takes more than 1 round of changes to get something that complicated working as well as possible.

 

Same thinking about Subdivision. Close but not there yet.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

well my vss Pro-forma has arrived in the in-box........want to really renew.....come on JIm just a taster please :P

Edited by Phil hunt
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well to the general topic, even given that my long time subscription price was increased by 17% and I no longer pay for  the Renderworks package which all now get for "free" (as annoying as that is) it is worth subscribing.

Just the addition of the Resource Manager (even as complex as it has to be), the interior elevation tool, and the flat roof tool made it worth it.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so i have a week to make my mind up to renew....i really do want to but as a 3d modeler do we think.....as a group there will be significant changes in this area.....so as you can hear i am 50/50 to renew or not but as its a fair chunk of cash.....one minute it's yes and the next maybe......I guess the group will be guessing to......i wish I was a fly on the wall at vectorworks....

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Phil,

 

Have you ever tried to go back 2 or 3 versions of VW and actually do any work? I have in several cases, and the incremental upgrades that improve the workflow tend to be astounding. If you are doing professional work, I strongly encourage you to figure out how to budget for the upgrades. And budget some time to learn what is new. If you just import your old workspace, you won't get many of the benefits of the new version.

 

As I stated above, I expect to see major improvements in 2018. Subdivision modeling, Curtain walls, Renderworks improvements. Plus lots of little stuff to make life easier and better. The people I know at VW are all very engaged and working diligently to make the product better.

 

I once new a carpenter who had worn the claws on his claw hammer down about 90%. So far that he could not use it to pull most nails. So every time he needed to pull nails he had to stop and get a different tool. But it was his favorite hammer and nothing else would ever be as good. Probably true, but it made him pretty inefficient. Don't be that carpenter with your tools.

 

My $0.02

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now